question about the bible

[Minimalist]

I understand that you have nothing better to do in your life than to make yourself look like a grouchy old cogger, what a waste of a human mind.

But I don't waste my life groveling to your fictional boogeyman. Do you leave cookies and milk out for Santa Claus? May as well....both are equivalent.

[Epimethean]

Except that people pretending to be Santa actually give gifts sometimes, too. I've never seen a Jeebus give more than a promissory note.

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The cross-crutchers are running amok. The O.T. must have been reprinted.

[Godscreated]

I understand that you have nothing better to do in your life than to make yourself look like a grouchy old cogger, what a waste of a human mind.

I understand that you have nothing better to do in your life than to make yourself look like a lick-spittle to an imaginary grouchy old codger, what a waste of a human mind.

Min here is another one who thinks the old cogger needs help defending himself, you should set him straight. I have figured out why you are so obnoxious, it's because of the pain from the ring around your butt DaveD.

[Faith No More]

Ouch! GC pulls out the claws! Meow! You're going to hell for that one buddy.

[Anymouse]

I never said not to read the entire Bible, everyone should, however reading srtaight through is not a study of scriptures it is just completeing a read. I'm not sure where you get your info on what goes on in churches, I've never experianced what your touting. No those verses are not taught in Sunday School and the reasons should be obvious, however with the way some on this site reason it would not suprise me if they thought it to be true.
Please answer this question, why do you think that pastors of churches do not want the people of the church studying scriptures, what would that profit them?

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My experience with churches: my sister converted to Christianity and eventually became a deaconess in the MCC church. My aunt was chief presbyter of Chicago. Pat Robertson and his bully-boys sent pickets to my apartment when I was running a Wiccan bulletin board in Virginia Beach, and the police would not remove them, though picketing a private residence is against the law. Some of the pickets even had signs that said "Burn the Witch." (My family and I were forced to leave our home for two weeks and live on-base at Naval Air Station Oceana until the furor died down.)

Martin Luther (the founder of the Protestant Revolt) was in favour of the Bible being printed (though he edited out several books, parts of Daniel and Esther, and Psalm 151 from the Canon, called the Book of James "The Book of Straw," and rejected everything after II Peter) because it would put the Bible in the hands of the parishoners.

But then people started reading it. And they came across such things as found in Numbers 11:12: Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?

They don't want you reading it because so much of the "Word of God" doesn't make any sense, and if that is the case, maybe the rest of it doesn't either? Because if people read and interpret it for themselves they don't need churches and pastors? Because if 100,000,000 Christians read and interpret the Bible there will be in fact 100,000,000 different versions of Christianity, each a religion unto itself?

I don't really know, I am not a Christian, therefore I have read (more than once) the entire Bible. Non-Christians in this "land of the free" have to read the Bible to defend themselves from the endless zealots knocking on our doors that don't. (I have found that pro-Wicca bumper stickers on my car deter both the Mormons and JW's working our little village lately, as well as the Lutheran Church across the street. The church who's founder wanted the Bible in everyone's hands.)

I note again that if you base your entire faith on a book, don't you want to know and understand everything in that book? If you can make sense out of Numbers 11:12, can you enlighten me?

James

[Godscreated]

I never said not to read the entire Bible, everyone should, however reading srtaight through is not a study of scriptures it is just completeing a read. I'm not sure where you get your info on what goes on in churches, I've never experianced what your touting. No those verses are not taught in Sunday School and the reasons should be obvious, however with the way some on this site reason it would not suprise me if they thought it to be true.
Please answer this question, why do you think that pastors of churches do not want the people of the church studying scriptures, what would that profit them?

---

My experience with churches: my sister converted to Christianity and eventually became a deaconess in the MCC church. My aunt was chief presbyter of Chicago. Pat Robertson and his bully-boys sent pickets to my apartment when I was running a Wiccan bulletin board in Virginia Beach, and the police would not remove them, though picketing a private residence is against the law. Some of the pickets even had signs that said "Burn the Witch." (My family and I were forced to leave our home for two weeks and live on-base at Naval Air Station Oceana until the furor died down.)

Martin Luther (the founder of the Protestant Revolt) was in favour of the Bible being printed (though he edited out several books, parts of Daniel and Esther, and Psalm 151 from the Canon, called the Book of James "The Book of Straw," and rejected everything after II Peter) because it would put the Bible in the hands of the parishoners.

But then people started reading it. And they came across such things as found in Numbers 11:12: Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?

They don't want you reading it because so much of the "Word of God" doesn't make any sense, and if that is the case, maybe the rest of it doesn't either? Because if people read and interpret it for themselves they don't need churches and pastors? Because if 100,000,000 Christians read and interpret the Bible there will be in fact 100,000,000 different versions of Christianity, each a religion unto itself?

I don't really know, I am not a Christian, therefore I have read (more than once) the entire Bible. Non-Christians in this "land of the free" have to read the Bible to defend themselves from the endless zealots knocking on our doors that don't. (I have found that pro-Wicca bumper stickers on my car deter both the Mormons and JW's working our little village lately, as well as the Lutheran Church across the street. The church who's founder wanted the Bible in everyone's hands.)

I note again that if you base your entire faith on a book, don't you want to know and understand everything in that book? If you can make sense out of Numbers 11:12, can you enlighten me?

James

It seems that you have only second hand info about christianity it's very possible that info is unreliable. Pat Robertson does what he believes is right, in my opinion he had a right to protest as long as he did not break any laws, it seems he did by what you say and he should have been notified and made to remove them. For those who put up the posters that stated harm I do not agree with that in any manner, I'm sorry that all christians do not think that everyone in this country has the right to live the life they desire (a right given by God as far as christians are concerned) and to even advertise what they believe, we (christians) ask that we are allowed to do so and should extend it to anyone who does not promote violence or anything thats unlawful. As for Martin Luther he had the right to believe what he wished, it did not make him correct nor the finial authority on the Bible. His hard work did help to open the scriptures to the common person and for that I applaud him. Now you seem to be contradicting what you state, first you say christians do not read the book that is to guide their life and then you say they should not and just learn from a pastor so the Bible want be misinterpreted by everyone. Reading the Bible is no way to interpret the Bible you have to study the Word. The Bible makes great sence when it is studied and verses are not taken out of passages and used to discredit the scriptures.
Now for Numbers11:12, first thing it's not a verse that stands alone, you should have started at the first verse of the chapter and read at least through the 12th verse. If you would have started at verse 1 you might have understood what Moses was saying. The Israelites were complaining about what they were being feed, they were being ungrateful for what was being provided for them. Moses had become tired of their complaining and was asking God (verse 12) why am I having to put up with these complainers that are never grateful for anything. Moses asked God, did I conceive them, did I give birth to them, yet You ask me to carry them in my bosom, as a nurse carries a nursing child, to the land You promised their fathers You would give them.
You should read a more modern translation, the King James translation is a beautiful poetic translation however no one speaks Old English any more so it becoming more difficult to understand. The only reason I ever go to it is to compare scripture that seem to trouble my understanding of some scriptures. I would suggest the New American Standard or the English Standard, the NAS is widely accepted as the most accurately translated. If you care to spend the money the International Inductive Study Bible of the NAS is a very helpful book.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is it bad form to mention that there was no Exodus?

If you properly translate an un-truth, does it become truth, closer to truth..is there some continuum that I have to see this stuff placed on to understand?

[Minimalist]

G-c will object to whatever you tell him but, what can you expect from a bible thumping idiot?

200 years of excavating in Egypt without a single shred of evidence that there were ever any Jews in mass slavery but like most blind fuckwads G-C just sits there with his eyes closed, his mouth running and a bible up his ass and repeats "thebibleisrightthebibleisrightthebibleisright."

There really is no hope for such people. I guess that's why I enjoy shitting on him and his fucking god at every opportunity.

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh one never knows. In any case I posted that for the lurkers. For the record Godchild, I'm just a messenger, you have Tel Aviv to thank for that little bit of info. Minimalist appears to have thrown the gauntlet down though Godschild, should we make a new thread? I take it that you believe in a literal exodus? Thread it up brother, show me the light.

[Minimalist]

He'll just give you a couple of bible verses and say "See?"

In the aftermath of the 6 Day War in 1967 when Israel gained control over the West Bank and Sinai, an entire generation of young Israeli archaeologists went out looking for evidence of the Exodus in the Late Bronze Age.

Here is part of an essay by Amihai Mazar which deals with the lack of any finds...not a single pottery sherd in Mazar's words...at Kadesh Barnea in Eastern Sinai which then, as now, is about the only place that a large group of people could find water.

http://books.google.com/books?id=m1b1VgN...&q&f=false

Note that Mazar goes on to discuss Yohanon Aharoni's work in the Arad Valley where they found, again to their surprise that there was no "king of Arad" to attack any Israelites....who did not exist anyway.

This failure to find any hard evidence of an Israelite sojourn in the desert led credence to the work of scholars like Israel Finkelstein who found that beginning around the start of the Iron Age in the eastern hill country of Palestine a number of villages developed which later morphed into Israel and Judah...or whatever the fuck they were actually called at that time.