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question about the bible
#31
RE: question about the bible
Only way you can learn about the bible is to read the bible. Not just the bible but the history and culture of the periods in which the books were written. It is made up of 66 books after all. Look into the history of the Church from small persecuted groups to conquering nations and then come to a your own conclusion. The bible is an extremely important book. The majority of our history and culture is based on it.

Make up your own mind. Learn it yourself. its the only way you can make a decision
I used to live in a room full of mirrors; all I could see was me. I take my spirit and I crash my mirrors, now the whole world is here for me to see.
Jimi Hendrix

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.
Kurt Cobain
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#32
RE: question about the bible
I would agree fudge apart from taking the church as an example. Those are only people, and people can get it wrong.
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#33
RE: question about the bible
Frodo, are you suggesting that churches are to be eschewed by a proper christian?
Trying to update my sig ...
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#34
RE: question about the bible
Sigh, you know what, any church that calls itself a christian church is, in fact, a christian church. I'm really starting to get annoyed at the idea that there is some over-arching and consistent christian message and somebody somewhere has it right....but not "those" guys. There is no consistent message in the bible, even the power of the lord himself is shown to be lacking time to time (I anxiously await the next generation of translators ready to "correct a mis-translation" and remove the account). This is the reason that there are so many denominations of christianity, all clinging to different, and many times mutually exclusive statements in the text.

In reading the bible you will learn a great deal about the culture that created the bible. It's worthless as a historical document (and I think it's unfair that believers and non-believers expect it to be), it does not contain any sort of moral authority that we would recognize as legitimate today. There are no insights as to our origins or our future. Reading the bible expecting to learn anything other than the narrative style of the authors, and collective superstitions of the target audience is a fruitless endeavor.



I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#35
RE: question about the bible
No Epi, you should just realise that people aren't perfect. To hold them up as such would be foolish. You also couldn't say that churches don't aim to be what they set out to be.

Which mainstream Xtian church isn't an Xtian church not accepted by all the others then Rhythm? Ah right... none. Biblical truths are exactly applicable now as they always were. We're strongly confident of our shallow materialism but are left wanting in comparison to some ancient goat herder wisdom.
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#36
RE: question about the bible
Didn't you just exclude sects that are not "mainstream"?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#37
RE: question about the bible
(June 29, 2011 at 9:17 am)Rhythm Wrote: Sigh, you know what, any church that calls itself a christian church is, in fact, a christian church. I'm really starting to get annoyed at the idea that there is some over-arching and consistent christian message and somebody somewhere has it right....but not "those" guys. There is no consistent message in the bible, even the power of the lord himself is shown to be lacking time to time (I anxiously await the next generation of translators ready to "correct a mis-translation" and remove the account). This is the reason that there are so many denominations of christianity, all clinging to different, and many times mutually exclusive statements in the text.

In reading the bible you will learn a great deal about the culture that created the bible. It's worthless as a historical document (and I think it's unfair that believers and non-believers expect it to be), it does not contain any sort of moral authority that we would recognize as legitimate today. There are no insights as to our origins or our future. Reading the bible expecting to learn anything other than the narrative style of the authors, and collective superstitions of the target audience is a fruitless endeavor.

Yes indeed.

http://christianity.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...c/WCE.html

Quote:Barrett's encyclopedia sought to count each human being in each religion and religious subcategory in each country as of 1900, 1970, 1990, 1995 and 2000, with projections to 2025.

The 2001 edition, successor to his 1983 first edition, which took a decade to compile, identifies 10,000 distinct religions, of which 150 have 1 million or more followers. Within Christianity, he counts 33,830 denominations.

And every one of the motherfuckers thinks they are right and everyone else is going straight to their imaginary hell.

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#38
RE: question about the bible
A church divided cannot stand.

And it doesn't, but that doesn't bother christians much at all, so long as their particular view of the mud seems clear.

Does it make sense? Well, millions of different kinds of people get addicted to a certain few drugs, and each one of them has an experience that is both unique and similar to the other addicts, so maybe it does. Christians are addicted to god, no matter which flavor he comes in.
Trying to update my sig ...
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#39
RE: question about the bible
(June 29, 2011 at 9:17 am)Rhythm Wrote: Sigh, you know what, any church that calls itself a christian church is, in fact, a christian church. I'm really starting to get annoyed at the idea that there is some over-arching and consistent christian message and somebody somewhere has it right....but not "those" guys. There is no consistent message in the bible, even the power of the lord himself is shown to be lacking time to time (I anxiously await the next generation of translators ready to "correct a mis-translation" and remove the account). This is the reason that there are so many denominations of christianity, all clinging to different, and many times mutually exclusive statements in the text.

In reading the bible you will learn a great deal about the culture that created the bible. It's worthless as a historical document (and I think it's unfair that believers and non-believers expect it to be), it does not contain any sort of moral authority that we would recognize as legitimate today. There are no insights as to our origins or our future. Reading the bible expecting to learn anything other than the narrative style of the authors, and collective superstitions of the target audience is a fruitless endeavor.

Prove your statements?
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#40
RE: question about the bible
Sure Godschild, I'll give you the cliffnotes, and if you take issue with any specific thing feel free to thread it up.

A person or group that self identifies as christian is in fact christian. I cannot provide a definitive argument about what people believe about their beliefs that would allow me to say "you, sir, are not a christian." I could potentially say that they weren't a very good christian (by whatever standard they chose or is generally accepted upon) but that does not of course prove that they are incorrect about their belief...about their beliefs.

The statement that the bible is not an accurate representation of history is pretty well documented, and anyone who cares to know how we know that things like Exodus or the Census in Beth are mythical can freely find this information. Google is a great place to start. The volume of historical claims made in the bible (new and old testament) is staggering. I'm not even going to attempt to address each one point by point.

Courts in developed countries do not cross reference their decisions with Leviticus. Wrenching a moral authority from the bible (that doesn't read like a demons resume) is exhausting and requires more cherry picking than it does to actually pick cherries. Is god pro genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery or against? (just the ones that immediately come to mind)

The account of creation in genesis is not an explanation of anything. It does not conform to the areas of our origins where we actually have mountains of actual, physical evidence, case in point it directly contradicts it in many places (re firmaments, the order of appearance of species, characteristics or classifications of comparable species)....and does not offer us anything to help us understand the parts we're still working on. If it did, we wouldn't have to continue looking would we.

Revelation again offers no insight, famously due to a lack of dates and heavily mythical imagery. Some people, when predicting the future, have the the courtesy to be more specific.

In all of this above you could find a passage in the bible that contradicts my argument, and I could find one that supports it. That is textbook inconsistency.

Denominations quarrel over the status of jesus divinity, his final words on the cross, the doctrine of faith or works, again, inconsistencies that have spawned, apparently, 33800 different denominations of christianity

The narrative style of the old testament is a prophetic cycle, whereby common themes and events are described which help to form the sense that a pattern is repeating itself, allowing the people who believe in scriptures to make predictions based upon the events of the past. The events and beings described form the basis of what we know about ancient hebrew belief systems and worldview. The new testament is different (not surprising given the difference in time between them). It's part of what cultural anthropologists call the monomyth and epic hero. Jesus is an everyman called to something greater who reaches beyond the accepted limits of his origin and suffers the consequences.

Are these the statements you wanted me to give proof for? Should I have included a sources page, do I get an A?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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