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question about the bible
#61
RE: question about the bible
I'm going to toss you a link regarding our disagreement about whether or not a "True Christian" can be identified. I can't state my case more eloquently or more succintly than has been done here.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn3.htm

It also touches on the subject of works, or faith, or whatever else any particular denomination might beleieve is required for salvation.


The central thread of the OT is of course Christ, I did say that the OT was written in a narrative style known as the prophetic cycle did I not? What other prophecy would I be referring to?

God's great love is a central theme of the bible? I'm not sure how to address this, since you immediately followed this statement by requesting that I not mention all the wars and killing.

I wrote that reading the bible " expecting to learn anything other than the narrative style of the authors, and collective superstitions of the target audience is a fruitless endeavor." Not, as you have rewritten my statement, that reading the bible is a fruitless endeavour. I stand by my statement. The bible is seeped in middle eastern superstition, and the narrative styles of the authors are distinct enough from each other that we can say things like X author of Y. That you look to the bible to find "God's truth" whatever that may mean is for you an article of faith, you're assuming it is there, because you assume that there is a god, and that the bible is his book. I'm simply not willing make those assumptions. I open the bible like any other book, fully expecting it to be a book, and nothing more.

That the bible has aided in the discovery of historic sites isn't something that I would take issue with. It is, after all, a book about a real (for the most part) place. Bombs, natural catastrophes, and claimed "psychic revelation" have also aided in the discovery of historical sites. We do not view any of these things as a credible source of history simply because they were associated with the discovery of said sites. The two events that I brought up, Exodus and the census in bethlehem, aren't just events in history. These events are given as factual accounts of events that help to form the basis of a religion. God delivering his chosen people out of slavery is a part of the prophetic cycle. It is echoed in the sentiments of salvation and heavenly reward. These events in a prophetic cycle build up to and reenforce each other. It's actually very important that they be accurate. If the census in Beth had not taken place, then what other reason would Joseph and Mary have had to travel to Beth? Yeshua ben Joseph could not have fulfilled the prophecy and been Christ unless he was born in Beth. Does that make the factual reality of the census in Bethlehem sound like a trivial matter to you? The intent of the bible is in fact as a book of history, that's why they started with "In the beginning, took the pains to add in every begot and begat, and further continued to give a "history of the future" in revelation.

I would argue that the bible is a work of art. And there are many narratives and psalms in the bible that I enjoy. Beyond that, what can I say?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#62
RE: question about the bible
(June 30, 2011 at 7:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote:




I read the link you posted and will say that I disagree with it. First though I want to say that I'm aware of the wars and violence in the Bible I did not mean that you could not use it as an argument, I was trying to keep some perspective on what is being discussed here, to go into the wars of Joshua and others would get us side tracked from the issue of what is a christian or better stated who is a christian.

The Bible is very clear on what is envolved in becoming a christian and how a christian can be identified. Throughout Pauls writings he states that by faith and grace alone is there salvation and that it can not be obtained by works or living a good life, which is impossible by God's standards, the OT is proof of that. Nowhere in the NT is there a different way stated that salvation can be obtained. Christ stated that no one can come to the Father except through Me, this statement is supported by what Paul writes and for that matter what is stated in the books of the NT. Again I will say, Christ gave His life that anyone who desired could have eternal life and this is what John 3:16 says. So to say that there is another way to salvation one needs to disprove what Christ says and much of what is written in the NT books.

Who is a christian, well it is simple I believe, one must have salvation according to the scriptures not what people want to believe, the only ones who are saved have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life, Christ also said that we could know them by their works and He did not mean that works are what saves people, works are the resulting actions of one who is saved. What kind of works was Christ talking about, doing the will of God, not going out on one's own and doing good deeds there is a big difference. People that say that works saves or that those who sin to often are not saved have a great problem, they need to define what is enough or what is to much and according to scripture only God could know these things and that He and He alone is judge, so to over come this they would have to put theirselves equal to God and that's just not possible. Now I think there is only one other thing to look at and that is the "gift". Salvation is called by God a gift and a gift is free that is unearned so this would completely eliminate works, baptisim or any other thing that would supersede faith and grace (grace being unmeritted love). So any church, denomination, person and ect. that claims to be of true christianity must conform to scriptures or as Paul says they are wolves in sheeps clothing.

There are many arguments about what is true salvation but one only need to study the NT to see what salvation is and how one comes under it's grace.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#63
RE: question about the bible
G-C is the ultimate example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Anyone who does not think as he does can't be a xtian.

Well, G-C...any asshole who thinks a dead jew came back to life and rose bodily up to heaven is a fucking xtian in my book and they are welcome to that absurd title.[/quote]
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#64
RE: question about the bible
That is some loony shit, the lamb's book of life: Sounds like a kids' book, but in this case, the lamb eats the kids.

Hey there's a pun there.
Trying to update my sig ...
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#65
RE: question about the bible
(July 1, 2011 at 9:22 am)Epimethean Wrote: That is some loony shit, the lamb's book of life: Sounds like a kids' book, but in this case, the lamb eats the kids.

Hey there's a pun there.

Read scriptures before making stupid comments that way you can be categorized.
(July 1, 2011 at 3:02 am)Minimalist Wrote: G-C is the ultimate example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Anyone who does not think as he does can't be a xtian.

Well, G-C...any asshole who thinks a dead jew came back to life and rose bodily up to heaven is a fucking xtian in my book and they are welcome to that absurd title.
[/quote]

Read scriptures and you might find you do not have any idea of what you are saying.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Reply
#66
RE: question about the bible
I'm surprised that you merely repeated that your interpretation of scripture is the accurate one..was there nothing else in my post you had an objection to?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#67
RE: question about the bible
I've read the fucking bible, moron. It is NOT persuasive as a basis for conducting one's life, and to suggest that a list of the good, the bad and the ugly obtains somehow inherently from its words is to subscribe to the disease of pure lemminghood.
Trying to update my sig ...
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#68
RE: question about the bible
No..no, lemmings have the decency to jump off of the cliff when they reach it. How dare you besmirch the good people of Lemmingdom.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#69
RE: question about the bible
Point noted. There really is no animal foolish enough or so ignorant as to deserve the metaphor.

Trying to update my sig ...
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#70
RE: question about the bible
Quote:Read scriptures and you might find you do not have any idea of what you are saying.


I've read it. Poorly written shit. Drunks could do better.

Why do you believe such pointless nonsense?

Are you insane?
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