Why is halal legal?

[Violet]

I say we skip GO and $200 and sacrifice a god to see what happens. Can an imaginary creature suffer pain? Does it bleed?

1: yes.
2: depends on the creature in question.

Larry didn't bleed, incase you were wondering if anyone here had any god-slaying experience. I do though.

[Napoléon]

According to the biblical story, Abraham sets out to obey God's command without questioning but does not state in front of Isaac that he is the intended sacrifice (22:5 and 22:8). After Isaac is bound to an altar, the angel of God stops Abraham at the last minute, saying that "now I know you fear God." At this point Abraham sees a ram caught in some nearby bushes and sacrifices the ram in Isaac's stead.

^ See fr0d0, it's the same type of sacrifice when the Muslims sacrifice a cow, sheep, or a goat.

It's the same amount of fucking stupid too.

[fr0d0]

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I'm not saying there's a difference, I'm just pointing out the correct attitude.

Okay but the correct attitude is dependant on one's intention for the sacrifice and you cannot judge that based on the actions only.

It follows that if you follow the text strictly without wanting the meaning, then your observance is empty.

You can do both at the same time, i.e. follow the text strictly and also stick to the meaning behind the action. The same thing with Christians.

If you're saying that to follow Allah you must replicate exactly the words of the Quran and ignore true observance then you aren't honouring Allah.

Then you tell me what is the 'true' observance and why that is not reconcilable with following the exact instructions of the Quran (if you think that the Muslims are doing something wrong).

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1. Yes
2. Yes
3. It depends what kind of Muslim you are, according to your own words. If you take it strictly literally you could justify wife beating and murdering infadels. If you apply more subtle reasoning (as with apologetics given by yourself) then you can appear to be pretty much in line with secular thinking.

@ Rhythm: Did you notice that you sacrifice to Allah where God is sacrificed to you?

What do you mean? ...

Now, remember the time when God told Abraham to sacrifice his own son as mentioned in the Bible?

According to the biblical story, Abraham sets out to obey God's command without questioning but does not state in front of Isaac that he is the intended sacrifice (22:5 and 22:8). After Isaac is bound to an altar, the angel of God stops Abraham at the last minute, saying that "now I know you fear God." At this point Abraham sees a ram caught in some nearby bushes and sacrifices the ram in Isaac's stead.

^ See fr0d0, it's the same type of sacrifice when the Muslims sacrifice a cow, sheep, or a goat.

Well I wasn't talking to you of course! But let me explain...

I was discussing with Rhythm the difference between the Christian God and all other monotheistic gods.

Firstly, humans are created in God's image:

"In the book of Genesis, dignity is conferred on humankind because only humans are in the image of God. All of the cosmos is created for people and with people in mind. In the ancient Near Eastern perspective, humankind is an afterthought and even a bother. There is no dignity to be found in the created status of humanity. Humankind is created to be slaves rather than to rule. Dignity in Mesopotamia, for example, is therefore found in the function of humankind - The gods need them to provide housing (temples) and food (sacrifices). (p. 232. John H. Walton. Ancient Israelite Literature In Its Cultural Context, A Survey of Parallels Between Biblical amd Ancient Near Eastern Texts. Grand Rapids, Michigan. Zondervan Publishing House. 1989, 1990 Revised Edition)

And secondly, God turned that on it's head with making himself the sacrifice to us and aboloshing sacrifice to him.

[Epimethean]

Which is just as fucked up if not more so than the old ways. Holy shit.

[Atheist Jew]

Reminds me of circumcision.

[Epimethean]

Thanks to European parents, I am happily ignorant of that barbarity.

[Rayaan]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. It depends what kind of Muslim you are, according to your own words. If you take it strictly literally you could justify wife beating and murdering infadels. If you apply more subtle reasoning (as with apologetics given by yourself) then you can appear to be pretty much in line with secular thinking.

Fair enough, and yes, I do not take everything literally as there is the issue of interpretation and reasoning involved in the process of understanding the Quran.

Well I wasn't talking to you of course! But let me explain...

I know, but I just wanted to understand your comments to him. This is an open discussion anyways.

Firstly, humans are created in God's image:

Which is according to Genesis, although I do not maintain that belief because Islam teaches that God does not have the appearance of any created thing. He is One and Unique, different from all physical things, as mentioned in the Quran, "Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him" (112:1-4). Therefore, I do not imagine God as literally having a face, hands, and a body like that of human beings or other creatures.

This is according to Islam and not Christianity. So, we may agree to disagree on this.

And secondly, God turned that on it's head with making himself the sacrifice to us and aboloshing sacrifice to him.

So God himself can be sacrificed (in Christian belief), right?

But when Abraham slaughtered a ram, was that God sacrificing himself, or was that a sacrifice to God? I mean, what kind of a sacrifice was that? (Just a simple question).

[fr0d0]

Fair enough, and yes, I do not take everything literally as there is the issue of interpretation and reasoning involved in the process of understanding the Quran.

[quote='fr0d0' pid='153011' dateline='1310298174']Firstly, humans are created in God's image:

Which is according to Genesis, although I do not maintain that belief because Islam teaches that God does not have the appearance of any created thing. He is One and Unique, different from all physical things, as mentioned in the Quran, "Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him" (112:1-4). Therefore, I do not imagine God as literally having a face, hands, and a body like that of human beings or other creatures.

This is according to Islam and not Christianity. So, we may agree to disagree on this.

Very literal interpretation noted

I would think the verses you quoted there are pretty much exactly the Christian/ Judaic statements too.

And secondly, God turned that on it's head with making himself the sacrifice to us and aboloshing sacrifice to him.

So God himself can be sacrificed (in Christian belief), right?

God sacrificed himself, yes.

But when Abraham slaughtered a ram, was that God sacrificing himself, or was that a sacrifice to God? I mean, what kind of a sacrifice was that? (Just a simple question).

It was a sacrifice to God, be Abraham.

Pre new covenant: Judaism... to pay back for your failings you could give something to God.

[Violet]

Reminds me of circumcision.

Halal makes your dick look better? No wonder the Muslims are so obsessed with it.

[Napoléon]

No wonder the Muslims are so obsessed with it.

Yeah, arabs got the 'short end of the stick' with that regard in the first place eh?