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You know what really drives me, what keeps me at it? The thought that if I didn't, one of my mouth-breathing siblings would.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
kichi Wrote:Who will offer 'Chiropractic' solutions to her problems...
Is she interested in Yoga?? Hatha yoga in particular?
silly Rhythm what do you think a good chiropractor is?? "Medical science" is just woo woo. imho. BUT having said that you can get a very good medical practitioner who has enough experience and expertise to help you sort out your health issues. Then again you are just as likely to get one that only diagnoses from the pharmaceutical catalogues. meh
And NO medical practitioner or "medical science" has found a cure for Cancer or any of the myriad of 'Terminal diseases' that afflict mankind. There are only 'band-aid' solutions until you die from the pain-killer overdoses.
Kichi –
There’s a lot I want to address about CAM that will have to wait for another time. The forums seem to be giving both of my computers a lot of grief (yes, IT nerds, I’ve already cleared out caches and Adrian has done a few connection tests so we’re not sure what it is) so my answers will be few and far between as it’s hard enough to try and get online even to make a quick mod-ly perusal.
I’m going to start with Chiropractic, as it’s the thing being discussed at the moment.
Before we go any further, I’d like to direct everyone’s attention to two articles. There are several others, some far better and more indepth, but I think these do the trick explaining in the most concise ways where Chiro came from and what it’s principles are. Both are also fully sourced, which is much more than you will find on many CAM websites.
As far as I can tell, while there seem to be a few benefits associated with chiro, they are all similar to what you would receive under a licensed physical therapist. I seem to be reading that these chiropractors do not have to meet the same medical licenses and standards that PT’s and massage therapists do. That sends up red flags to me, as many different types of CAM also do not have to be put under a medical board because they’re not real medicine. Just because there are some similar benefits does not make it “ok” – whatever you think of EBM (evidence-based medicine, as we like to call it), there most certainly ARE rules and regulations in place so that if someone commits malpractice they can be taken to task for it and lose their license. This is not true in CAM. This allows chiropractors to call their work whatever they want, to base it on whatever they want, and you will thrive or suffer solely on whether or not the treatments they make happen to coincide with *good* health practices or not. This, as compared to EBM, where trials HAVE to be made to show that there is effectiveness before it gets used on humans, then mass-marketed.
The worst thing I have ever heard is that chiropractors will work on babies. Babies do not even have fully formed bones, and you are cracking them? What for?
The main problem seems to be that you mistrust modern medicine, which, while I love you, is crap.
Yes, doctors are over-worked. I stated an example as to why, but with increasing populations and ever-increasing technology, those who must keep up with tech (be it equipment or pharmaceuticals) must also work harder than ever, and they are only human. They also have to deal with humans – and we rabble can be frustrating and ignorant. How would you feel if someone brought you or Zen a sick plant or bike and you said it was an easy common sense fix but they kept coming up with bullshit claims or denying your advice?
To complain that medical science is woo-woo is to denigrate all of the vaccines and antibiotics people are developing, and worrying about developing, because they actually WANT to do good on this earth. It means complaining about all of the people who do research – including cancer research! – to fix today’s and tomorrow’s problems. Saying that it hasn’t cured cancer yet must be some sort of fallacy, and I can’t think of which right now. It’s like complaining back in the day that medicine shouldn’t have progressed in a scientific manner because they couldn’t figure out small pox. Wtf? So because the killer of our time hasn’t been cured yet, we should flip off the good they ARE doing? Should we have stayed at the height of medicine in the colonial period? Cancer is not one sort of disease to pin down and understand. There are no simple answers.
Personal rant: to everyone who passes along those messages to raise breast cancer awareness by making ambiguously lewd status messages along the lines of the “bra color” status that reached the news:
That does not raise awareness. Nor does buying pink ribbons or pink colored desk crap or pink-boxed cereal. Send your money to an actual cancer research facility (don’t buy another tchotchke) and set up a support network with your friends to remind each other to check for lumps monthly. Make it a party even – that way everyone’s actually feeling their breasts up; not giggling over how they might have confused a few guys by posting shoe sizes on Facebook.
Then I must have been very lucky to contact a "Chiro" with the right credentials?
Best way I know for checking for lumps is to get the partner to examine you and you Him/Her... has worked for me all this time.
Oh and no I won't help ease the loss of a friend's loved one by posting the cancer "giggle threads" anymore (happy?) and without a 'chiro/physio therapist' my mother would not have been able to walk. (she is still going well @75yo)
So what are you proposing?? That we dismiss (out of hand as woo-woo) these practitioners and all the good that they do
Quote:"because they actually WANT to do good on this earth"
RMIT is a member institution of the Council on Chiropractic Education Australasia (Inc). Accreditation has been granted to the bachelor and the two-year master degree. Completion of the three-year degree and the two-year master is necessary to be eligible to apply for registration as a chiropractor (subject to continued accreditation).
Graduates are eligible for membership with the New Zealand Chiropractors Registration Board; the General Chiropractic Council (Britain), various state and provincial jurisdictions in the USA, Canada and Hong Kong.
Like I said perhaps I was very lucky that I live in a country where all Physios, Osteopaths, Chiros and Massage therapists ARE registered and ARE continuing to update their credentials knowledge and skills. They are no less overworked than Medicos but less picky here in Oz is my finding.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
August 30, 2011 at 12:36 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2011 at 12:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The point, Kichi, is that however licensed or registered a chiro is, the only treatments that they can offer that have been shown to have an effect are offered elsewhere. The vast majority of treatments available amount to no more than cracking bones at random hoping for the best. I sure as hell hope that if a country actually allows people to crack bones for the shits and giggles of it, they'd better be familiar with anatomy.
That being said, why is it that non-chiros rarely offer to crack your spine to cure a common cold? You may be dealing with an entirely different chiro industry on your side of the pond. Never forget that..lol. Alternative therapies are alternatives for a reason.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 25, 2011 at 11:40 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: When I was 16 I did my research paper on Alternative Medicine. I was rather unskeptical - it was something new to me, and included a lot of herbalist crap, which I liked. Eventually though you have to see through the bull.
Shermer just came out with a piece that I think makes a good kick off to a thread for questions or venting about CAM.
For me, a lot of frustration comes from plant-based alternative therapies. Botanicals already contribute extensively to our way of life, and are a rich mine of even further treasures, but many traditional herbal remedies have little more than a placebo effect, or work in ways that actually contradict their folkloric use, or are even downright dangerous.
Quote:In most cases CAM hypotheses do not pass these simple criteria. They have either failed to reject the null hypothesis, or they haven’t even been rigorously tested to know whether or not they could reject the null hypothesis.
What, then, is the pull of CAM for so many people?.....
A 2004 survey of 1,400 U.S. hospitals found that over 25% offered such alternative and complementary therapies as acupuncture, homeopathy, and massage therapy. According to researchers Sita Ananth of Health Forum, an affiliate of the American Hospital Association, and William Martin, PsyD, of the College of Commerce at DePaul University in Chicago, in a news release: “More and more, patients are requesting care beyond what most consider to be traditional health services. And hospitals are responding to the needs of the communities they serve by offering these therapies.”
Herein lies one answer to understanding why CAM sells. There is a market demand for it. Why? One possibility is that people are turning to alternative medicine because their needs are not being met by traditional medicine. As the late medical historian Roy Porter was fond of pointing out, before the 20th century this certainly was the case.4 Medical historians, in fact, are in agreement that until well into the 20th century it was safer not to go to a doctor, thus leading to the success of such nonsense as homeopathy—a totally worthless nostrum that did no harm, thus allowing the body to heal itself. Since humans are pattern-seeking animals we credit as the vector of healing whatever it was we did just before getting well. This is also known as superstition, or magical thinking.
Another explanation may be found in examining what CAMers are offering that mainstream physicians are not: TLC. By this I do not just mean a hand squeeze or a hug, but an open and honest relationship with patients and their families that provides a realistic assessment of the medical condition and prospects. People are going alternative because in too many instances physicians have become highly skilled technicians—cogs in the cold machinery and massive bureaucracy of modern HMO medicine.
...
So…we should turn to CAM then, right? Wrong. An even deeper problem is that CAMers lack much medical knowledge and (especially) scientific reasoning, making them dangerous. The 2002 study referenced above found that 54.9% used CAM in conjunction with conventional medicine but did not always tell their primary care physician, thus leading to possibly deadly mixtures of drugs and herbs.1 It is not a matter of everything to gain and nothing to lose by going CAM (even if your doc offers no hope), because quack medicines cost money, cause harm, and, most importantly, take away valuable time that could and should be spent with loved ones in this already too-short of a stay we have with each other.
Yes! I ARGEE!!
:oes a lap around the office with peace signs on both hands!::
After working in a pharmacy, I really don't trust medicine that much anymore. I only use medication for things like strep, pink eye, poison ivy, etc, stuff that I know will go away quickly. Otherwise, I let just about everything run it's course.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 29, 2011 at 8:12 am)Rhythm Wrote: If you have a headache caused by spinal mis-alignment you can go to a licensed medical professional and have that dealt with.
My chiropractor is/was a licensed medical professional. He's not one of those quacks that say that chiropractic is a cure-all.
He sure as hell fixed my neck that had pained me for years however.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
August 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm (This post was last modified: August 31, 2011 at 3:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Good for you. Could have gone to a physical therapist. I'm aware that chirpractors are "licensed", and they do indeed work in medicine. Doesn't take med school, or nursing school does it. One of these things is not like the other.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
August 31, 2011 at 3:31 pm (This post was last modified: August 31, 2011 at 3:50 pm by Jaysyn.)
(August 29, 2011 at 2:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Terriyaki Deer Jerky?
Yum!
(August 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Could have gone to a physical therapist.
I probably could have. I am pretty happy with the end result though. My neck was in bad shape & he had me to where I could turn my head again in a week. Back to normal in a couple of months. Aside from going to the ER, I wouldn't have even been able to see a "normal" physician or PT inside a week of my injury. (My neck had hurt for a good long while, but sleeping wrong on it one day was the proverbial last straw). Honestly, I was skeptical as hell going in, but pain can be a great motivator to try new & exciting things.
Also, If you are going to using time spent in school as a ruler, mine had 3 years of undergraduate school before spending almost 4 more getting his D.C.
A PT is a two year program where I live. RN is three.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
September 1, 2011 at 3:02 am (This post was last modified: September 1, 2011 at 3:28 am by KichigaiNeko.)
(August 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Good for you. Could have gone to a physical therapist. I'm aware that chirpractors are "licensed", and they do indeed work in medicine. Doesn't take med school, or nursing school does it. One of these things is not like the other.
Sorry Rhythm but here an RN is only a three year uni-degree (they are not very qualified) what follows is years of Post-grad studies (all of them in "Med School") the easiest of which is the Nurse Practitioner course of 1.5 years (very brief web-scan) Here your Physical Therapist (Public system) is just as overwhelmed as your Medical Practitioner (Public system) so that only leaves the Private sector (where most Physical Therapists go after their internship) to get anything attended to. General Practitioners can and often do recommend that patients see a good chiropractor or CAM therapists as they can only allow 10 - 15 mins per patient. Here in Oz no one can just hang their plaque up and start "practicing" The Chiro and physical therapist study the identical material in this "Med school" of yours,.. hell mate even a Sports therapist has to study the first two years of medicine before they can begin to take exercise classes or swimming classes.
Clearly we need to define just what we are talking about as ...
"Complementary / Alternative Medicine"
If you are talking about that Rekhi New age "spiritual", homeopathy and crystal healing stuff; how that manipulating the spine will 'cure' a particular illness that seriously requires other medical attention ...then yeah I wholeheartedly agree with you.
If you are trying to shove "Certified Registered Medical Personnel" and Pharmaceuticals down my throat ... I'm sorry but there have been a few too many "Certified Medical Practitioner" cluster fucks in this country to blindly have "faith" in the AMA here. It does seem that the USA version of the AMA is serving it's people poorly if any individual can put up their little sign and pretend to be a chiro/ physical therapist.
As for the research in this country... we have some of the best people working with others around the world ...unfortunately they do NOT attract govt funding and as such acquire funding from the Public (dorks like me) and Private enterprise. It is news reports like this http://www.smh.com.au/environment/mental...1jger.html that steadily errode my 'faith' in "Medical Research Science" as it appears that this (the latest in a long series of articles in this country) "vital research" is only made possible BECAUSE it has Climate Change in it's title! Many scientists are complaining that if you want funding from govt sources you HAVE make allusions to how it will prove Climate Change, support Climate Change policies, or no research project!!
Bloody grinds my gears...as it would seem that Scientific research has been shang-haied to serve the political agenda of the govt of the day!! Arrrgghhh!
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
![[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fthesummerqueen%2FUntitled2_zpswaosccbr.png)
oes a lap around the office with peace signs on both hands!:: 
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