Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 5:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The CAM Thread
#1
The CAM Thread
When I was 16 I did my research paper on Alternative Medicine. I was rather unskeptical - it was something new to me, and included a lot of herbalist crap, which I liked. Eventually though you have to see through the bull.

Shermer just came out with a piece that I think makes a good kick off to a thread for questions or venting about CAM.

For me, a lot of frustration comes from plant-based alternative therapies. Botanicals already contribute extensively to our way of life, and are a rich mine of even further treasures, but many traditional herbal remedies have little more than a placebo effect, or work in ways that actually contradict their folkloric use, or are even downright dangerous.

http://skepticblog.org/2011/08/16/folk-w...-medicine/

Quote:In most cases CAM hypotheses do not pass these simple criteria. They have either failed to reject the null hypothesis, or they haven’t even been rigorously tested to know whether or not they could reject the null hypothesis.

What, then, is the pull of CAM for so many people?.....

A 2004 survey of 1,400 U.S. hospitals found that over 25% offered such alternative and complementary therapies as acupuncture, homeopathy, and massage therapy. According to researchers Sita Ananth of Health Forum, an affiliate of the American Hospital Association, and William Martin, PsyD, of the College of Commerce at DePaul University in Chicago, in a news release: “More and more, patients are requesting care beyond what most consider to be traditional health services. And hospitals are responding to the needs of the communities they serve by offering these therapies.”

Herein lies one answer to understanding why CAM sells. There is a market demand for it. Why? One possibility is that people are turning to alternative medicine because their needs are not being met by traditional medicine. As the late medical historian Roy Porter was fond of pointing out, before the 20th century this certainly was the case.4 Medical historians, in fact, are in agreement that until well into the 20th century it was safer not to go to a doctor, thus leading to the success of such nonsense as homeopathy—a totally worthless nostrum that did no harm, thus allowing the body to heal itself. Since humans are pattern-seeking animals we credit as the vector of healing whatever it was we did just before getting well. This is also known as superstition, or magical thinking.

Another explanation may be found in examining what CAMers are offering that mainstream physicians are not: TLC. By this I do not just mean a hand squeeze or a hug, but an open and honest relationship with patients and their families that provides a realistic assessment of the medical condition and prospects. People are going alternative because in too many instances physicians have become highly skilled technicians—cogs in the cold machinery and massive bureaucracy of modern HMO medicine.

...

So…we should turn to CAM then, right? Wrong. An even deeper problem is that CAMers lack much medical knowledge and (especially) scientific reasoning, making them dangerous. The 2002 study referenced above found that 54.9% used CAM in conjunction with conventional medicine but did not always tell their primary care physician, thus leading to possibly deadly mixtures of drugs and herbs.1 It is not a matter of everything to gain and nothing to lose by going CAM (even if your doc offers no hope), because quack medicines cost money, cause harm, and, most importantly, take away valuable time that could and should be spent with loved ones in this already too-short of a stay we have with each other.
[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]
Reply
#2
RE: The CAM Thread
My uncle went the CAM route, and then stopped availing himself of effective treatment entirely (the potions didn't make him feel like shit). Easy to fill in the rest.

The purveyors of magic elixirs should be held accountable for the effects of their treatments in the same way that actual medical professionals are held accountable.
Reply
#3
RE: The CAM Thread
What grinds my gears is that they thrive on people's desperation and fear Angry
Reply
#4
RE: The CAM Thread
A common business model..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#5
RE: The CAM Thread
I've little doubt in my mind that my step-father would still be alive if he had chosen traditional treatment for his bladder cancer.

Instead, this guy's quackery killed him.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
Reply
#6
RE: The CAM Thread
A loud and resounding "FUCK THAT GUY!"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#7
RE: The CAM Thread
(August 28, 2011 at 1:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: A loud and resounding "FUCK THAT GUY!"

Seconded.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








Reply
#8
RE: The CAM Thread
Quote:Another explanation may be found in examining what CAMers are offering that mainstream physicians are not: TLC. By this I do not just mean a hand squeeze or a hug, but an open and honest relationship with patients and their families that provides a realistic assessment of the medical condition and prospects. People are going alternative because in too many instances physicians have become highly skilled technicians—cogs in the cold machinery and massive bureaucracy of modern HMO medicine.

I am thinking that the above statement is the main reason why people are turning to CAM.

Mind you CAM has it's uses. You can't fix a dislocated joint with pharmaceuticals. NO amount of drugs are going to ease a headache caused by spinal misalignment. But homeopathy utterly escapes my reasoning....why would anyone want to use that???
Quote:Ideally, in a controlled experiment, we would like to be at least 95–99 percent confident that the results were not due to chance before we offer our provisional assent that the effect may be real.

I find this comment interesting as most pharmaceuticals are released with less % confidence and many people are diagnosed against a "statistical average norm" whatever that number is (but I am convinced it is less than the 95-99 percentile)
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Reply
#9
RE: The CAM Thread
If you have a headache caused by spinal mis-alignment you can go to a licensed medical professional and have that dealt with. If you have pain you can get a prescription for medication based on proper diagnosis and it WILL ease the pain. Alternative therapies are not effective at treating anything whatsoever. If they were, they wouldn't be alternative, they would be mainstream. Snake oil, top to bottom. I understand that people may wish that their doctor was more warm or personal (and I doubt that it's impossible to find a friendly doctor), but at the end of the day you go to a doctor to seek medical advice; not friendship. If he is a cold cog in the machine that is medicine, and his treatment is effective, bravo for the machine.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#10
RE: The CAM Thread
There are always risks associated with any medication - which, despite what fear mongerers would have you believe, are usually thoroughly tested before they hit the market. Unfortunately, the ones who get the press are the ones who have the negative reaction - some of which isn't necessarily the doctor's fault because we can't control for EVERY variable until it happens, and sometimes people lie about their medical history or are ignorant of it. It's much more than just some shadowy corp. trying to eck money out of everyone.

Most people in this country do not have the tools to do a proper risk assessment, nor the skills to really judge. There are plenty of risks involved for me taking both my birth control meds AND my Imitrex, but I consider them worth it because 1) they are relatively minimal still, even considering my family history and 2) because I don't want to get knocked up/have mood swings (at least as bad as I had them) and hate migraines.

There's a huge disconnect between the medical community and lay people, but it's not always the fault of the doctors - there are plenty of laypeople like my father and a good friend of mine who waste a professional's time with every little sniffle, sneeze, and cough rather than taking some robitussin and getting over it, thus cutting into MY appointment time when I need to get something that truly disrupts my life checked out. People do not educate themselves in the slightest, and then when they do it's easier to turn to CAM because the "principles" are easier to grasp.

[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]
Reply





Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)