Life is awesome - argumentum ad populum

[Cyberman]

A git will always be a git, I suppose.

[Phaedra]

Sorry, Phae, you're an intelligent gal, but this is wildly incorrect. Studies suggest that mental disorders like depression and anxiety can often be alleviated, if not "cured," by exercise alone. They also suggest that behavioral therapy works wonders for anxiety disorders, such as OCD and PTSD. What about schizophrenia, dissociative personality disorder, manic depression, psychosis, etc? In some cases, the placebo effect did come into play, when it came to mental disorders that can be alleviated by endorphins, which can be created by the hope a new medication brings. That's not really placebo, as there are brain chemicals reacting to the specific ailment. It's not placebo in the same regard as treating a cold with placebo, as a cold is not a mental chemical imbalance. Psych meds being overprescribed does not mean that the majority of people who have mental disorders do not need them -- not by a long shot. They may only need them temporarily. They may need them all the time or they may not need them at all. It depends on the ailment, the severity and the patient's tolerance of the medications. Give a schizophrenic a placebo and you will still have a sick schizophrenic. There is scientific evidence that specific psych meds help tremendously, but patients really have to work with their doctors to find the right meds because we are talking about brain medication here. It is not one size fits all.

You're wrong. So very, very wrong.

If you want to research my claims, a good place to start is here:

http://robertwhitaker.org/robertwhitaker...renia.html

You could also read Robert Whitaker's book, "Anatomy of an Epidemic"

I asked my psychologist if what I'd read was true, and she consented that it was. I asked my psychiatrist if what I'd read was true, and he consented that it was. But, they said, "Better safe than sorry." This...despite the fact that the drugs made me more suicidal. Despite the fact that I lost motor control and skin pigment. Other victims of my sojourn into the world "meds" (which included anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, "mood-stabilizers", amphetamines, and anti-anxiety drugs) were/are my ability to think clearly, the feeling in half of my face, and a cell phone that I microwaved. I was worse off than I had been before I began treatment. My story is not unique in any way. I've found countless lunatics with stories just like mine. The side-effects may vary.

[Shell B]

Well, that was a well thought out response. I'm afraid I have to disagree and have already explained why. What you are saying goes against authentic medical study. The idea that mental illness can be "cured" without medication comes from the handful of mental illnesses that can be treated with cognitive behavioral therapy and/or exercise. Given that there are many more than just those few and that even those few do not always respond to such treatments, your statements are clearly incorrect and your objections to my statements clearly based on your opinion on the subject. I would trot out the reasons I know this and that I believe you are stating an opinion based on the popular anti psych medication fad. However, I do not feel it is necessary, given that the only opposition to the fact that meds are life saving for some people with mental illness and many require them to function has so far been a nut case with a phallic dinosaur for an avatar and a "you're wrong." I realize that my manner of speaking irks some people, but I don't care to hear a half-assed opinion on this matter -- I hear enough of those. Again, I sincerely hope that people like you do not give advice to mentally ill people. That is what doctors are for.

[Phaedra]

I accidentally posted it before I meant to. Although I realize that you are not likely to be swayed regardless of how much evidence I provide.

[Cinjin]

you are not likely to be swayed regardless of how much evidence I provide.

yah .... thats rather the nature of these forums isn't it? People with opposing views tend not to change them.

[Phaedra]

yah .... thats rather the nature of these forums isn't it? People with opposing views tend not to change them.

I've changed my opinion on certain subjects (not on this forum, yet) based on evidence people have provided. My ego is not so large that I can't admit I was wrong/biased.

[Shell B]

Phae, I suspected that your opinion was based on a single case, though I am sorry to say it is yours. I have read everything from what you are presenting to what I am presenting and in-between, for a damn good reason. Rather than spout off about other people's experiences, as they are private, I will tell you about mine and then try to abstractly tell you about theirs. I think it is relevant, so I will mention it.

I agree that medication does not work for everyone. I was on an anti-depressant for six months that didn't do shit. It turned out that the cause of my depression was a beta blocker I was on for my heart condition. I now refuse to take anything more than tylenol. I can't take cold medicine with pseudoephedrine in it, which is nearly all of them. I can't take aspirin and I can't ingest anything with caffeine in it because of my heart. I won't take meds for depression or anxiety because they make me feel fucked up. Now, you know about me and why I partially agree with you and have already conceded that there are two ends of the spectrum. That is what I think you are failing to realize. You are not the only person with mental issues. Furthermore, yours is not the only mental illness in existence.


This isn't about ego. It's about facts.

ETA: Please do not use the quote function for this post. I do plan on removing it. I normally would object to that, but it's not for me to leave other people's life stories on a public forum. I just wanted to give you a better perspective on where I am coming from.

[Jackalope]

I've changed my opinion on certain subjects (not on this forum, yet) based on evidence people have provided. My ego is not so large that I can't admit I was wrong/biased.

As have I, on a great many things. Not on this forum, but from discussion both online and in meatspace over many years. I was formerly somewhat conservative in my views, I now lean much much more to the left.

[Phaedra]

I had responses to individual bits of your post, got down to the bottom and realized you didn't want me to quote it. So here we go:

You said that my opinion was based on a single case. Not true, it is based on what I've read and researched.

I realize that there are two ends of the spectrum. I never said that I was the only person with mental issues, nor did I claim that mine are not the only mental illnesses in existence. You're jumping to conclusions here. I never said that medications are completely unnecessary, and I do not claim to be a medical expert. I too have watched the severe mental illness you spoke of play out. I would like to point out that I never said that no one needs the help of medications, nor would I advise anyone to stop taking theirs.

Therein lies the problem. You cannot project your life on to someone else's. I would never say a person who thinks exercise helps should take meds instead and vice versa. This is people's lives we are talking about.

I agree. That isn't what I'm doing. I told a personal tale, and it was not meant to be merely anecdote, not data.

As for PTSD, I no longer have it, but medication was indeed helpful.

Lastly, the ego comment wasn't directed at you, Shell. I should have clarified that.

I'm sorry that this is so choppy.

[Jackalope]

Shell -

Although your latest post was not directed at me, I do appreciate you sharing your experiences, and of course out of respect I will not quote them or make reference to them.

Although anecdotes are not a substitute for data, they do help shed light on the subject. I have no doubt that psychotropics are over-prescribed and that many who take them do not need them. On the other hand, for some they are life savers. I was in the "no meds" camp for many years and it nearly cost me my life, and I mean that quite literally. Not going to get into the gory details here though.