Believe:

[Edwardo Piet]

FOREVER? I do not think that is possible...

The question for me is how long...

And I do not and cannot know the answer to this question.

EvF

[athoughtfulman]

yes you can choose to believe in anything and everything, but you will naturally choose to believe certain things and deny others based what things feel right to you.

To be honest, I would feel more comfortable if there were a god, and it would "feel" more right to me. But feelings are inadequate evidence or reason to believe in anything.

We should count ourselves lucky when something feels right while simultaneously is right.

Sure, many atheists are atheists because they "feel" more comfortable without the idea of a god. But there are also a lot of atheists who recognise a feeling in themselves which desires a god, yet they are brave enough to discount the feeling if it is in contradiction to the evidence.

[Edwardo Piet]

I wouldn't feel comfortable with a God because it just doesn't make sense to me...WHY does GOD get to be GOD? LOL

Doesn't make sense, doesn't fit with the pattern. I'd ONLY want it if it was the ONLY way for life to be less fucked-up than it is in reality (wihout a God I of course I assume (guess what, I don't believe in God folks! Lol))...

If the world could be a lot less fucked-up WITHOUT some bogus bloke in the sky - I think that would be better.

I'd only desire a caring God if it was the only way to have a better life - if life can be better than it is WITHOUT this 'caring God' interfering - I think that's better STILL.

Who needs that ponce unless it's the only way life could be more perfect?

I mean it would be cool if the universe was just BETTER, STILL without a bullshit God than WITH one I think.

EvF

[athoughtfulman]

Exactly!

The word "feeling" is very inadequate here. I suppose I mean an "innate sense" that god is real. I feel that, probably because I grew up going to church till I was 18, and also because of natural evolutionary causes. But the more I learn, the more this "innate sense" is departing.

So this "innate sense" is not proof at all. If it were, it would stand in the face of all other arguments. But how many atheists have turned their back on this "innate sense"?

And I still feel like I haven't described this correctly...

[Edwardo Piet]

I think it might be perhaps something like (and this is just a guess):...."An innate sense of awe that comes and goes but usually comes when one is feeling at peace and at peace with 'life itself'. That 'feels' and 'seems' so awesome that one feels one must almost attribute this feeling to something greater than reality itself...it FEELS almost like transcending reality itself deep in one's bones. So it can sometimes feel like one must attribute the feeling to something BIGGER than reality itself."

Just as a guess lol - because I get that feeling sometimes.

The thing is it's not remotely evidence. And just because you FEEL and it SEEMS that there is more than life doesn't mean there is...

And what I think is REALLY profound (for me at least) is the fact that LIFE can FEEL like more than itself (like the whole is greater than the some of its parts or something like that? Emergence?) - WITHOUT being more...

The fact that feelings that FEEL like they are transcending nature and reality itself....can (and do) in fact come about WITHOUT being any more than just nature and reality...

The fact that this feeling can come WITHOUT some supernatural or 'spiritual' bullshit that 'transcends reality itself' really existing...without it ACTUALLY being that way...the fact it can feel that way without being spiritual bullshit...the fact you can get more or at least just as much with LESS.... and entirely NATURALLY... I find to be a lot more profound than if it really were so, if the kind of; out of place 'transcendence' really existed (and really went beyond 'reality' whatever that would mean); because you're getting the feeling from nature rather than 'something more' - which I just see to be superficial 'spiritual' bullshit.

The fact that those feelings can come about WITHOUT the supernatural but just from NATURE, naturally - I find to be a lot more profound.

That's how I feel about it anyway.

EvF