(January 8, 2016 at 11:21 am)MysticKnight Wrote:(January 8, 2016 at 11:05 am)robvalue Wrote: Of course, some people may genuinely have no empathy and so cannot understand regular morality. But religion seems to want to convince everyone that they are psycopaths, and will behave as such without religious "guidance". It's just not true at all.
What religions claim that? I am not aware of any, so perhaps you can inform me which ones make this claim. I understand the poetic exaggeration so I'm not taking it literally. Which religion claimed people can't be empathetic, loving to one another, good to their parents, respecting to one another, have good manners etc, without religious guidance?
Again, you need to learn the difference between what religion claims, and what it actually produces in reality. The kind motifs religions like to claim, in reality can be done without religion. The empathy as religion sells is not set up to be universal, although it does claim that. The empathy religion sets up in reality is tribal and at best "separate but equal" or is fine with others being a pet our house guest. That is empathy for the tribe, not empathy for all of humanity. The love for outsiders as depicted back then is conditional.
The God/s of Abraham are tribal characters because back when all three of those books were written, humans lived in feudal times and back then the mortality rate was much higher and it was extremely important for your own survival to tow the tribal line. So the love of others back then was for the tribe, those three holy books describe very violent revenge to anyone attacking the tribe. The obeying your parents were not because you were seen as an individual, you obeyed your parents because you were their property.
Those books put you down even before you are born, teach you to assume the worst and only the sky boss can save you from the game he didn't have to set up. He blames you for the conditions he didnt have to put in place. Those books teach you to kill for the tribe. No, that is not the way the religious in the civil west like to view it, but again, those books were not written with our modern values in mind.
Religious people don't claim those things no, but they are totally unaware of how their false perceptions lead to bad actions. "Sin" is the concept that you are a piece of shit and are doomed to fail even before you do anything wrong.
Robvalue is right. Religion convinces people they are nothing without it. The truth is if you have to live under promise of reward or threat of punishment, that is a very childlike and ignorant form of regulation. It is immoral to treat an adult as if they need a sky parent. As immoral as Kim Jong Un who will treat you well if you obey and "respect him". Doing the right thing is doing it even when nobody is watching and you don't get rewarded.
If someone needs bribes or threats to self regulate, by all means do it. But to expect others who do the same and do so without threats or bribes is vile. I am an adult and I don't need a sky parent watching me every second of my life or bullying me with threats of hell to do the right thing. And I don't need someone to dangle a cookie in front of me either.
