RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 23, 2015 at 6:09 am
(This post was last modified: August 23, 2015 at 6:19 am by Ronkonkoma.)
Correct me if I'm wrong....
First cause:
We are part of the self-conscious universe. Our brains are the most complex things we know in the universe. We are parts of the universe that probe the universe and are fascinated by it, because being intelligent, we can also sense intelligence when it is there. We are able to create things in the small scheme, and we look for a creator on the grand scheme of things. The Cal Tech supercomputer can now make measurements 10 to the 23rd power. It has been estimated by astronomers that the complexity of the universe in simply balancing gravity against the electric force needs calculations a hundred trillion times more precise. And this is just one aspect of the universe that without which life could never happen.
The Universe had a beginning. It is no longer believed to be infinite. This was shown by the Big Bang theory. Time itself had a beginning (see the "beginning of time"" by Stephen Hawkins). Space, time and matter had a beginning!
This is important to your question because it was a commonly held idea that life initially came about on earth by chance form atoms assembling to form molecules and proteins, cells, to reproducing life by random chance over an infinite amount of time, over an infinite amount of rolls of dice on a seemingly infinite number of earth-like planets. We now know that time is not infinite. And neither is matter. There are very strict requirements for the existence of life in the expanding universe, and our Earth in our 21st century is extremely lucky in that regard. Yes, we are star dust. Flourine in our bodies can only form as dust from a dying star is pulled off by the gravity of a nearby dying star, and a third planet is around to cross the path of this star dust. There are an estimated 41 of fine tuned conditions like these that are needed for life to exist on a planet. A chance in a billion trillions.
This is crucial because, like seeing an exploding grenade and asking, "who pulled the pin?", we are asking, Who or what caused this????
And the answer is, if there is a cause for the Big Bang and the beginning of time, space and matter, and life itself, it is GROSSLY INTELLIGENT.
Hence...
V
V
V
Deistic deity.
Since space, matter and time had a beginning, the Cause of it must have existed OUTSIDE of space, matter and time.
So the question, "if God created the universe who created God?" does not apply. That's because something beyond space and time has no need to begin to exist, but is rather in eternal existence.
Hence... we come to theology
V
V
V
Theistic god:
If the material universe has a beginning and is finite and it has a cause, the cause must be immaterial. Hence, theologians have been saying since thousands of years that God is immaterial (God is spirit). And if this Origin of space and time is outside of space and time, it can also be omnipresent.
And a God of Love:
The total mass of the universe acts as a catalyst for nuclear fusion. The more massive the cosmos, the more efficient nuclear fusion. If the Universe is too massive, the basic elements Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon could not form. If the Universe was too small, we would be stuck with only Hydrogen. But the Universe is exploding from a miniscule beginnings of an immensely immense mass. The time for life to form is exactly now. Its taken 14 billion years. Now, the exact position and mass of a billion stars allows life to form on this miniscule planet. OUR life. Hence... the Creator is loving since the price He paid for life to form on earth can be seen in the brilliance of a billion stars in the night sky. Just as Abraham gazed at the night sky and conversed with God, leading him out for the Promised Land.
Hence...
V
V
V
Abrahamic god:
The Abrahamic God out of all the religious texts is the only one that is said to be outside of space and time. The "Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end." We are mostly material beings so we can't even define Him completely. It is He who defines Himself, telling Moses, "I AM WHO I AM".
What's more, Jesus Christ, also said of Himself:
"Truly, truly I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (i.e. he is above the limits of time. Those who heard him recognized the blatent message and vowed to kill him for blasphemy. And he walked on water. The message? He is beyond matter.)
Hence...
V
V
Your particular abrahamic god: Jesus Christ - The God of Love. The one who became one of us, in the greatest event in human history.
your particular denomination's god
V
V
V
I am Catholic. That means I rely on nature, science, divine revelation and tradition- the experience of scholars and leaders since 2000 years. Combine everything to make a final conclusion. I grew up as a Catholic but it took 33 years to be able to express this huge thing.
And I pray. Prayer is just mindfulness of the presence of the Creator through introspection. Introspection is looking inward, though our inner eyes to our deepest desires and longings. And our deepest core that longs for our Creator.
"Deep is calling on Deep in the churning of the waters. Your waves have swept over me." Psalm 42.
V
V
V
your personal version of this god: For that I am figuring out who I am, and that will take a lifetime.
Really, really pretty please? ._.
(I realize that the last two may be the same thing depending on the circumstances, so feel free to merge them if you like)
[/quote]
First cause:
We are part of the self-conscious universe. Our brains are the most complex things we know in the universe. We are parts of the universe that probe the universe and are fascinated by it, because being intelligent, we can also sense intelligence when it is there. We are able to create things in the small scheme, and we look for a creator on the grand scheme of things. The Cal Tech supercomputer can now make measurements 10 to the 23rd power. It has been estimated by astronomers that the complexity of the universe in simply balancing gravity against the electric force needs calculations a hundred trillion times more precise. And this is just one aspect of the universe that without which life could never happen.
The Universe had a beginning. It is no longer believed to be infinite. This was shown by the Big Bang theory. Time itself had a beginning (see the "beginning of time"" by Stephen Hawkins). Space, time and matter had a beginning!
This is important to your question because it was a commonly held idea that life initially came about on earth by chance form atoms assembling to form molecules and proteins, cells, to reproducing life by random chance over an infinite amount of time, over an infinite amount of rolls of dice on a seemingly infinite number of earth-like planets. We now know that time is not infinite. And neither is matter. There are very strict requirements for the existence of life in the expanding universe, and our Earth in our 21st century is extremely lucky in that regard. Yes, we are star dust. Flourine in our bodies can only form as dust from a dying star is pulled off by the gravity of a nearby dying star, and a third planet is around to cross the path of this star dust. There are an estimated 41 of fine tuned conditions like these that are needed for life to exist on a planet. A chance in a billion trillions.
This is crucial because, like seeing an exploding grenade and asking, "who pulled the pin?", we are asking, Who or what caused this????
And the answer is, if there is a cause for the Big Bang and the beginning of time, space and matter, and life itself, it is GROSSLY INTELLIGENT.
Hence...
V
V
V
Deistic deity.
Since space, matter and time had a beginning, the Cause of it must have existed OUTSIDE of space, matter and time.
So the question, "if God created the universe who created God?" does not apply. That's because something beyond space and time has no need to begin to exist, but is rather in eternal existence.
Hence... we come to theology
V
V
V
Theistic god:
If the material universe has a beginning and is finite and it has a cause, the cause must be immaterial. Hence, theologians have been saying since thousands of years that God is immaterial (God is spirit). And if this Origin of space and time is outside of space and time, it can also be omnipresent.
And a God of Love:
The total mass of the universe acts as a catalyst for nuclear fusion. The more massive the cosmos, the more efficient nuclear fusion. If the Universe is too massive, the basic elements Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon could not form. If the Universe was too small, we would be stuck with only Hydrogen. But the Universe is exploding from a miniscule beginnings of an immensely immense mass. The time for life to form is exactly now. Its taken 14 billion years. Now, the exact position and mass of a billion stars allows life to form on this miniscule planet. OUR life. Hence... the Creator is loving since the price He paid for life to form on earth can be seen in the brilliance of a billion stars in the night sky. Just as Abraham gazed at the night sky and conversed with God, leading him out for the Promised Land.
Hence...
V
V
V
Abrahamic god:
The Abrahamic God out of all the religious texts is the only one that is said to be outside of space and time. The "Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end." We are mostly material beings so we can't even define Him completely. It is He who defines Himself, telling Moses, "I AM WHO I AM".
What's more, Jesus Christ, also said of Himself:
"Truly, truly I say to you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (i.e. he is above the limits of time. Those who heard him recognized the blatent message and vowed to kill him for blasphemy. And he walked on water. The message? He is beyond matter.)
Hence...
V
V
Your particular abrahamic god: Jesus Christ - The God of Love. The one who became one of us, in the greatest event in human history.
your particular denomination's god
V
V
V
I am Catholic. That means I rely on nature, science, divine revelation and tradition- the experience of scholars and leaders since 2000 years. Combine everything to make a final conclusion. I grew up as a Catholic but it took 33 years to be able to express this huge thing.
And I pray. Prayer is just mindfulness of the presence of the Creator through introspection. Introspection is looking inward, though our inner eyes to our deepest desires and longings. And our deepest core that longs for our Creator.
"Deep is calling on Deep in the churning of the waters. Your waves have swept over me." Psalm 42.
V
V
V
your personal version of this god: For that I am figuring out who I am, and that will take a lifetime.
Really, really pretty please? ._.
(I realize that the last two may be the same thing depending on the circumstances, so feel free to merge them if you like)
[/quote]
