Born this way, baby

[Foxaèr]

What catfish seems to be saying is that you should have experienced nonsexual attractions as you grew up, as pretty much everyone does. Didn't you?

Not at all. I viewed everyone around me as friends, and that was as far as it went. I do not recall ever having non-sexual attractions to either gender before I reached puberty. Of course, my case is not the same as everyone's. I know of homosexual men who had infatuations or non-sexual attractions with girls as they were children, but as soon as puberty struck they realized that they were sexually attracted to men instead of women.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

What catfish seems to be saying is that you should have experienced nonsexual attractions as you grew up, as pretty much everyone does. Didn't you?

Not at all. I viewed everyone around me as friends, and that was as far as it went. I do not recall ever having non-sexual attractions to either gender before I reached puberty. Of course, my case is not the same as everyone's. I know of homosexual men who had infatuations or non-sexual attractions with girls as they were children, but as soon as puberty struck they realized that they were sexually attracted to men instead of women.

That's why catfish is saying he thinks you were born asexual.

[Foxaèr]

That's why catfish is saying he thinks you were born asexual.

If one is going to become technical regarding the terms, then I suppose everyone is born asexual until they reach puberty. However, as the studies suggest, the fact that it is written in one's DNA in regards to whom one is going to be sexually attracted to upon puberty, then one is born that way.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

That's why catfish is saying he thinks you were born asexual.

If one is going to become technical regarding the terms, then I suppose everyone is born asexual until they reach puberty. However, as the studies suggest, the fact that it is written in one's DNA in regards to whom one is going to be sexually attracted to upon puberty, then one is born that way.

I'm not quite sure I buy that. We may have evolved from bonobos, who are highly sexual creatures, including the young. And certainly, I had sexual desires even when I was very young (I just couldn't identify them as I had no concept of sex). Maybe I am different though, as I was sexually harassed by a classmate when I was kindergarten and that may have skewed things for me.

[catfish]

That's why catfish is saying he thinks you were born asexual.

If one is going to become technical regarding the terms, then I suppose everyone is born asexual until they reach puberty. However, as the studies suggest, the fact that it is written in one's DNA in regards to whom one is going to be sexually attracted to upon puberty, then one is born that way.

Then how can a set of identical twins develop with one gay and one not???

[Foxaèr]

Then how can a set of identical twins develop with one gay and one not???

Experience shows that identical twins are rarely completely the same. Until recently, any differences between twins had largely been attributed to environmental influences (otherwise known as "nurture"), but a recent study contradicts that belief.

Geneticist Carl Bruder of the University of Alabama at Birmingham, and his colleagues closely compared the genomes of 19 sets of adult identical twins. In some cases, one twin's DNA differed from the other's at various points on their genomes. At these sites of genetic divergence, one bore a different number of copies of the same gene, a genetic state called copy number variants.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...-identical

[catfish]

If one is going to become technical regarding the terms, then I suppose everyone is born asexual until they reach puberty. However, as the studies suggest, the fact that it is written in one's DNA in regards to whom one is going to be sexually attracted to upon puberty, then one is born that way.

I'm not quite sure I buy that. We may have evolved from bonobos, who are highly sexual creatures, including the young. And certainly, I had sexual desires even when I was very young (I just couldn't identify them as I had no concept of sex). Maybe I am different though, as I was sexually harassed by a classmate when I was kindergarten and that may have skewed things for me.

You're not different, it's common for younguns to identify their preference early on. It's just a conspiracy by the APA to supress facts.

Fuck the APA!

[DeistPaladin]

How on earth would he know he was gay before puberty? That doesn't mean environment made it so - just that kids normally don't look at the opposite sex like sexual objects until that time.

Mom was a child psychologist (past away about 10 years ago) and I remember how she once told me that there were signs from a very young age, even before puberty. Androgynous behavior (it's apparently not just a stereotype) can be an indication. This is not to say that every tom boyish girl is going to grow up to be a lesbian but there is apparently a correlation.

But you are correct that the environment doesn't make it so, at least as far as the field is concerned.

[catfish]

Then how can a set of identical twins develop with one gay and one not???

Experience shows that identical twins are rarely completely the same. Until recently, any differences between twins had largely been attributed to environmental influences (otherwise known as "nurture"), but a recent study contradicts that belief.

Geneticist Carl Bruder of the University of Alabama at Birmingham, and his colleagues closely compared the genomes of 19 sets of adult identical twins. In some cases, one twin's DNA differed from the other's at various points on their genomes. At these sites of genetic divergence, one bore a different number of copies of the same gene, a genetic state called copy number variants.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...-identical

Good read.

The conclussion at the end left me wondering though. What type of evidence would the Bruder report entail that would warrant the bolded assertion?

Bruder speculates that such variation is a natural occurrence that accumulates with age in everyone. "I believe that the genome that you're born with is not the genome that you die with—at least not for all the cells in your body," he says.

Charles Lee, a geneticist at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, agrees. Genetic variations can arise after a double strand of DNA breaks when exposed to ionizing radiation or carcinogens. "It reminds us to be careful about our environment because our environment can help to change our genome," he says.

Plus, these variations may predict age-related diseases. Lee adds: "As you age … your chances for having a genomic rearrangement that causes a certain disease increases all the time."

The differences between identical twins increase as they age, because environmentally triggered changes accumulate. But twins can also begin their lives with differences, according to Bruder's study, and that calls into question their very name.

[thesummerqueen]

How on earth would he know he was gay before puberty? That doesn't mean environment made it so - just that kids normally don't look at the opposite sex like sexual objects until that time.

Mom was a child psychologist (past away about 10 years ago) and I remember how she once told me that there were signs from a very young age, even before puberty. Androgynous behavior (it's apparently not just a stereotype) can be an indication. This is not to say that every tom boyish girl is going to grow up to be a lesbian but there is apparently a correlation.

But you are correct that the environment doesn't make it so, at least as far as the field is concerned.

Here's what I'm still waiting for from him:

1) He says that up till the 70's, homosexuality was listed as a disorder, and then removed as such. He seems to think it should be put back - or at least his tone implied as such. If so, I want to know why he thinks so.

2) He also says that it's an environmental thing, and I want to know why someone 'finally getting in touch with their sexuality' means that it was an environmental factor and not a late-blooming biological one.

I ask the second still because:

While I certainly had a few 'crushes' as a child, I don't personally count these as sexual awareness. Mostly because I get "friend crushes" to this day where I want to spend copious amounts of time and energy and resources on people from either sex, and yet don't want to have sex with them. I could be wrong from a medical perspective.

I didn't even give sex a passing thought until I was 16, despite being fully aware of the mechanics. Most of the people I knew in high school seemed to have developed a fascination with it by 13. Maybe earlier. I don't think that made me asexual.

I also ask it because:

catfish seems to have a grudge against the APA in general, and that alone makes me skeptical of all of his pronouncements on it.

And also because he gave no evidence to back up his assertion.