JW looking clarity followup

[Cyberman]

I always try to treat people respectfully, at least until they might warrant me to treat them otherwise. A person's beliefs, however devoutly held, are as fair game to criticism as is their taste in music. A sort of reverse "love the sinner, hate the sin" kind of thing.

[KevinM1]

I'm sorry; no.  I think it's utterly rude and presumptuous to go knocking on a stranger's door, and I refuse to encourage the behavior.

Thats fine because you have that right. But remember that they're not stuck in internet forums, they actually go out and engage with people. Too few of humans these days allow people to have beliefs that they don't agree with. Thats why people are becoming more polarized in their beliefs. You can see the proof in demographics, red districts become redder, blue become bluer. My point is, Discussing beliefs with people in a calm respectful way is upbuilding to humanity

Not when you come onto strangers' property uninvited.  That's called trespassing.

There's also the implication that by just stopping over that your time is more important than mine, which is inherently selfish.  That I must stop what I'm doing and somehow entertain you.  I don't let family and friends come over uninvited.  I sure as shit aren't going to let someone trying to get me to join their cult do so. 

I have no problem discussing whatever with whomever.  It just needs to be done with the consent of all involved.

[Won2blv]

Thats fine because you have that right. But remember that they're not stuck in internet forums, they actually go out and engage with people. Too few of humans these days allow people to have beliefs that they don't agree with. Thats why people are becoming more polarized in their beliefs. You can see the proof in demographics, red districts become redder, blue become bluer. My point is, Discussing beliefs with people in a calm respectful way is upbuilding to humanity

Not when you come onto strangers' property uninvited.  That's called trespassing.

There's also the implication that by just stopping over that your time is more important than mine, which is inherently selfish.  That I must stop what I'm doing and somehow entertain you.  I don't let family and friends come over uninvited.  I sure as shit aren't going to let someone trying to get me to join their cult do so. 

I have no problem discussing whatever with whomever.  It just needs to be done with the consent of all involved.

No, its actually not trespassing unless you put a sign up. And there are zero implications with a visit. You can even ask to be put on a "do not call" list. Witnesses are not members of a cult. They are normal human beings. If you think that it makes you superior because you feel you know something they don't and it makes you more free as a result, thats just great. But all they're trying to do is share something that could be encouraging. And if you don't care, you can remember that they are humans. And in my opinion, ALL humans deserve to be treated with dignity. But clearly your beliefs (or non beliefs) are important to you. Or I doubt you'd be on forums commenting on them

[Mudhammam]

If Witnesses are not members of a cult, what do you believe a cult is? My dictionary (Google) defines it as "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object; a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister; a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing."

I've been to a Kingdom Hall before, and it seemed to fit that description remarkably well.

[Aractus]

1. Why would this almighty god be subjected to what a human demands as proof?

Well 1. he proves himself a number of times in the OT to the patriarchs - including talking directly with them. The problem is what constituted as proof then doesn't constitute proof now. If he was willing to prove himself to the patriarchs, then why not to others now?

2. Does gods creation not make him apparent?

2. No it doesn't because why did he create diseases that only affect children? Why did he create mosquitoes? Why did he create Onchocerca volvulus and other parasitic worms? Why did he tell Adam and Eve they could "eat from any tree" (except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) when in fact many tress, such as say the suicide tree and the Manchineel tree, produce fruit that is deadly to humans? Furthermore why did he create species whether plant, fungus, or animal that are deadly to us?

3. If god popped up one day to make himself readily known as existing, would all people serve him any way?

3. According to the OT, yes they would.

4. If gods purpose as I have been taught, is that one day the earth will be a paradise like state with no evil. Back to its original Eden conditions. Proving that Satan, Adam, and Eve were wrong to reject gods sovereignty and humans are not capable of ruling themselves... how would it serve his purpose if people worshipped him out of fear of him killing them rather than from their hearts?

I know the last one will get a lot of flack

Where in the Bible does it ever say that the Earth will be reborn in that way?

[robvalue]

Even if I believed everything in the bible really happened pretty much as written, then I still don't care. Whatever freaky stuff was going on back then has obviously stopped. The only reasonable conclusion from this is that god is either dead or has lost interest. Either way, until he has got something to say (not someone presuming to speak on his behalf) then I'll assume he's AWOL.

People are desperate to interpret every mundane event as evidence of god. The atheist just shrugs his shoulders. The smug old atheist would not be able to ignore the kind of crap that was going on in the bible, angels everywhere, god flying around blowing things up, and so on. If the world actually does still seem like the biblical description to anyone, I'm sorry to say you're extremely delusional.

[downbeatplumb]

I'm sorry; no.  I think it's utterly rude and presumptuous to go knocking on a stranger's door, and I refuse to encourage the behavior.

Thats fine because you have that right. But remember that they're not stuck in internet forums, they actually go out and engage with people. Too few of humans these days allow people to have beliefs that they don't agree with. Thats why people are becoming more polarized in their beliefs. You can see the proof in demographics, red districts become redder, blue become bluer. My point is, Discussing beliefs with people in a calm respectful way is upbuilding to humanity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bWz74h518

That video is about Mormons but the point is this.
People have the right to not be bothered and that is what JWs do. You think it is reaching out and being more inclusive but really it just being annoying.

[robvalue]

I think banging on someone's door uninvited to preach to them is extremely rude. Door to door sales is bad enough, but trying to sell an invisible product to me is just insulting. Put a leaflet through my door if you must.

Why does an all powerful god need people to do stuff for him? If he wants to talk to me, he can man up and call my secretary to make an appointment. I guess he's too busy not curing AIDS and cancer at the moment.

[TubbyTubby]

Witnesses are not members of a cult.

That's what they all say. I expect if you asked a member of any of the other ten thousand or so religions, they would call all the others cults.
Seems logical then, for an unbeliever / non member of any cult, to just refer to all of them as 'cults'. JWs and the 41,000 other christian denominations included so no point in being offended. If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Tonus]

I do find it interesting that most people here say they would not serve god of the bible even if he proved his existence.

As I pointed out in my reply, there is precedent for it.  The Bible speaks of many people that rejected god even though they believed that he existed.  Satan.  Adam and Eve.  A great number of the Israelites.  Many of the people of Jesus' time, including the priests and one of his own disciples.  They all found god sufficiently underwhelming that they were able to make the decision to turn from him, even knowing that the stakes were very dire.

Doesn't that make you think?  How unimpressive must god have seemed to them, that they preferred death or eternal torment versus living forever on earth or in heaven?

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Too few of humans these days allow people to have beliefs that they don't agree with. Thats why people are becoming more polarized in their beliefs. You can see the proof in demographics, red districts become redder, blue become bluer. My point is, Discussing beliefs with people in a calm respectful way is upbuilding to humanity

You are aware of the policy of the Jehovah's Witnesses when it comes to 'allowing people to have beliefs that they don't agree with'?  Does the name Raymond Franz ring a bell?  Just visiting a forum such as this one could lead to your being disfellowshipped and shunned by the membership, up to and including your immediate family depending on the circumstances.  Think about how you are taught to react when, during one of your door-to-door visits, the person begins to discuss his or her own beliefs or challenges yours.