Are you still grieving? You are not alone.

[Edwardo Piet]

Hitler's Tweets would have been more intelligent

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This is not a debate people!!! This post was made with someone needed help, and all you guys care about is bashing trump and his followers!

[Catholic_Lady]

I agree that there are certain lines of thoughts that shouldn't be tolerated. Like if someone thinks it's ok to rape or kill or enslave people, for example. Obviously. But you will literally hardly ever find that in Western culture. Usually intolerance of thought is directed at someone who has a different religion or a different political opinion than yourself.

[Edwardo Piet]

No I very much care about Aroura.

I am sure Aroura won't mind me bashing Trump

I didn't bash any of 'his followers' (Folllowers? What is he now? Orange Jesus? Well he's about as believable.)

This is presuming "all you guys" meant "all you guys"

[abaris]

Hitler's Tweets would have been more intelligent

You know, there has been a very popular actor/author/comedien in my country, who, in his later years gave readings of "Mein Kampf" to satirically reveal the primitive nature of the book and it's author. Sadly he died 30 years ago and well before the rise of the extreme right. When asked if something like Hitler could happen again, he denied the possibility, saying that someone needed to be a lot more clever and shrewder than Hitler ever was.

How wrong he was. The primitivity has remained on the very same level and it still appeals to people.

---

I agree that there are certain lines of thoughts that shouldn't be tolerated. Like if someone thinks it's ok to rape or kill or enslave people, for example. Obviously. But you will literally hardly ever find that in Western culture. Usually intolerance of thought is directed at someone who has a different religion or a different political opinion than yourself.

As I said, with all I have to read or hear these days, you only have to swap muslim for jew and it hits very close to home. Do I have to tolerate that just because it's not my very own minority this time round?

Hell no. This shitstain line of thought has to be called out at every given opportunity.

[Aroura]

I agree that there are certain lines of thoughts that shouldn't be tolerated. Like if someone thinks it's ok to rape or kill or enslave people, for example. Obviously. But you will literally hardly ever find that in Western culture. Usually intolerance of thought is directed at someone who has a different religion or a different political opinion than yourself.

I typed this big long thing then decided not to post it.

We can all tolerate people who have a difference of political opinion.
It's when they disagree with facts that we struggle. Am I supposed to tolerate the opinion that global warming is a Hoax? That's not an opinion, it's a denial of scientific consensus. Am I supposed to entertain the opinion that Clinton is running a child porn ring out of a pizzeria, when that is 100% fiction? Am I to tolerate people who think there are millions of illegal voters, or that Trump is more honest than Clinton, when those are just outright lies?

It doesn't matter, of course, what we think about Clinton, now. But the facts are that intolerance comes on a sliding scale people aren't either kkk pro slavery anti suffrage, or else not bigots at all. The world is not that black and white, pun intended.

I remember about 2 years ago, an Asian lady I went to grade school with posted some stuff about white privilege and racismore. I read it and was deeply offended. I posted about it here on this forum. I'm white so I'm automatically racist, that's Stupid!
I fought that idea, hard. But while wrestling with I slowly realized that
A. That wasn't what she was saying.
B. I was a bit racist and didn't even realize it.

We all are. Tribalism is instinctual. It must be conciously fought against. But many don't want to accept that. Still, many do fight this fight, which is why we are a nation divided. Saying it is simply political or religious is a massive oversimplification.

The history of this massive division starts and ends with civil rights, which became a political issue, but is not inherently one. It's ideological, it's fundamental. And it's extremely complicated.

[SteelCurtain]

I agree that there are certain lines of thoughts that shouldn't be tolerated. Like if someone thinks it's ok to rape or kill or enslave people, for example. Obviously. But you will literally hardly ever find that in Western culture. Usually intolerance of thought is directed at someone who has a different religion or a different political opinion than yourself.

Right, but that's what we're talking about here, with regards to a lot of Trump supporters, and a lot of conservatives. (Not all, but a lot).

We're talking about conservative "values" in denying gays and transgender individuals equal rights. We are talking about massive tax cuts for the rich. We are talking about people who are vociferously against any police criticism in the face of unarmed black people being killed nearly weekly, we are talking about the wholesale legitimizing of the white nationalist movement, we are talking about people who are overhwelmingly for a massive roundup and deportation of 11 million people, we are talking about people who support stopping all refugee help for the Syrian crisis, and even some who cheer on as their President Elect floats the idea of a registry for American Muslims.

If we're talking about conservative principles, real conservative principles of small government, deregulation, and cutting spending, I can agree to disagree. When we are talking about policies that disproportionately negatively effect the most vulnerable in our society, then I call that a crisis.

[Catholic_Lady]

Unfortunately when some people talk about diversity, they are referring to those of different races, sexual identity, and country of origin. It's easy to tolerate those things. Why in the world would I care what someone's skin color is? Or who they prefer to have sex with? Or what country they were born in? I don't care about that. No normal person should. Those are surface things that don't impact me or my life whatsoever.

Diversity of thought is much more difficult to tolerate. People with different religious beliefs, different values, and different political opinions. That right there is real diversity. And tolerating and respecting all people regardless of those things is real tolerance, imho.

This is what the catch-22 is. If your (global you) thought or belief is that 1. gays shouldn't have the same rights, or that 2. police killing black people without consequence is tolerable, or that 3. women and poor people should be deprived of reproductive choice, or that 4. we should round up and deport 11 million people, or that 5. white nationalism is a position worth legitimizing and supporting, then your opinion is deleterious to a free and open society.

I will support anyone's right to have those opinions, but I will be vocal in my dissent and my attempts to delegitimize those opinions. If that makes me intolerant, so be it. I am, by the same token, intolerant of attempts to evangelize any beliefs in schools or science denial.

My bold. 

Here's the thing though. 

Many people wouldn't put those things that way because that's not how they view them at all. If you stop and talk to some of these people, you may find that to them: 

1. ...it isn't about "gays not having rights." It's about keeping the definition of the word "marriage" to mean not just 2 people, but 1 man and 1 woman.

2. ...it isn't about "police killing black ppl without consequence." It's about them believing that more often than not, it's done in a case of legitimate self defense. 

3. ...it isn't about "poor people or women being deprived of reproductive choices." It's about believing that all people, no matter how small, have an inherent right to life above any other right. 

4. ...it isn't about "deporting 11 million people." It's about regulating our boarders and following the law. 

5. ...is isn't about "supporting white nationalism." It's about voting for whom they genuinely believed was the lesser of 2 evils, Trump. 

Now, before I get accused of falling into all 5 of those categories just because I'm seeing things through their point of view, let me say the only one that would apply to me is #3. Maybe #2 in certain cases.

But I'd like to think I'm able to understand that people think differently from myself. And just because someone voted for Trump, doesn't mean they are supporting white nationalism, for example. That's tolerance. 

And if Trump voters want to discuss it, I'll voice my opinion and disagreement for their candidate of choice. But I'm not going to bash them, or think the absolute worse of their motives, or stop being their friend. It's about giving people the benefit of the doubt and understanding that they may not be seeing things in the same way you're seeing them. And that doesn't make them bad people. 

As a Catholic in an atheist forum, I practice this type of tolerance of thought all the time with all of you. I'm not perfect and I screw up all the time. But I do try.

[abaris]

In short tolerating intolerance isn't tolerance but indifference.

If someone defines themselves over hating and degrading others, to tolerate them is aiding and abetting that line of (I hesitate to even call it that) thought.

---

As a Catholic in an atheist forum, I practice this type of tolerance of thought all the time with all of you. I'm not perfect and I screw up all the time. But I do try.

No, you don't.

You're not on the receiving end of people calling you subhuman for your believes. And if someone does, you will observe that many rush to your aid. Me among them. That's on the same line. If someone degrades someone just for who they are, they need to be called out. That's the same on the individual level as it is on the broad brush level.

Intolerance should never be tolerated.

[Amarok]

I agree that there are certain lines of thoughts that shouldn't be tolerated. Like if someone thinks it's ok to rape or kill or enslave people, for example. Obviously. But you will literally hardly ever find that in Western culture. Usually intolerance of thought is directed at someone who has a different religion or a different political opinion than yourself.

Right, but that's what we're talking about here, with regards to a lot of Trump supporters, and a lot of conservatives. (Not all, but a lot).

We're talking about conservative "values" in denying gays and transgender individuals equal rights. We are talking about massive tax cuts for the rich. We are talking about people who are vociferously against any police criticism in the face of unarmed black people being killed nearly weekly, we are talking about the wholesale legitimizing of the white nationalist movement, we are talking about people who are overhwelmingly for a massive roundup and deportation of 11 million people, we are talking about people who support stopping all refugee help for the Syrian crisis, and even some who cheer on as their President Elect floats the idea of a registry for American Muslims.

If we're talking about conservative principles, real conservative principles of small government, deregulation, and cutting spending, I can agree to disagree. When we are talking about policies that disproportionately negatively effect the most vulnerable in our society, then I call that a crisis.

Indeed let's not confuse reasonable  conservatism a flawed but respectable position with trumpism a the worst vices of a degenerating west and the worst vices of nationalism and corporatism run amok mixed with the horrors of American religious dominionism one can be disagreed with the other no such tolerance can be afforded