(August 10, 2015 at 5:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: Most atheist here have done so on numerous occasions it's difficult to remember who and I just generalized, again sorry.

GC

I would never call you stupid, since I don't think you are stupid. Willfully ignorant, yes. Stupid, no. Actually I think the former applies to many theists coming to this board. The latter only applies to a select few. The ones launching a few bible quotes and when they miss their mark, leave for good. Also known as shit and runners.

(August 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(August 9, 2015 at 10:00 pm)Jenny A Wrote: We aren't talking about what the Garden of Eden story is about.  That is a rather different discussion. We are talking about how god is depicted in the Bible--specifically whether he is a human looking creature or an ethereal spirit, or what. Those verses and many others in Genesis suggest a two legged man with superpowers.  Specifically one with feet, a desire to walk in the cool of the evening, who gets in wrestling matches with his creations.  Other verses, particularly the Prophets suggest a more unknowable being.   Exodus is rather transitional.

Like I said before you need to pay attention to what you read. When God had physical encounters with man it was Christ, not the Father. The reason God is described as having physical parts like hand, arm, feet and ect. because to this day man can't explain what Spirit is. I've asked that here several times and have yet to receive an answer. 

GC

I suppose it's an answer of sorts.  But I don't believe for a minute that those writing Genesis thought they were writing about Jesus instead of Yahweh when he had physical encounters with people.  What you have going there is a Christian rewrite of the OT.

Physical encounters with god in the OT are rather different than encounters with Jesus in the NT:

Quote: So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.

Genesis 32: 22-31


Doesn't sound remotely like Jesus to me. Sounds like old "I am who I am."  I doesn't sound like metaphorical wrestling either.  Wrenching your hip is not what happens in a mental struggle.

Nor do god's footsteps sound like an inability to describe god in the garden of Eden.  God doesn't just walk, he has foot falls and cares about the time of day for comfort reasons.  It's all very anthropomorphic.

How did god "birth" jesus? Shrudder!

When did god make jesus and by what magic can jesus see god without dying? How would god keep jesus' body alive in heaven without food, water, assistant microbials, and a great big toilet?
Wouldn't jesus get totally bored with his father? Just how much playing with the humans could he take in an eternal life?

(August 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(August 9, 2015 at 10:00 pm)Jenny A Wrote: We aren't talking about what the Garden of Eden story is about.  That is a rather different discussion. We are talking about how god is depicted in the Bible--specifically whether he is a human looking creature or an ethereal spirit, or what. Those verses and many others in Genesis suggest a two legged man with superpowers.  Specifically one with feet, a desire to walk in the cool of the evening, who gets in wrestling matches with his creations.  Other verses, particularly the Prophets suggest a more unknowable being.   Exodus is rather transitional.

Like I said before you need to pay attention to what you read. When God had physical encounters with man it was Christ, not the Father. The reason God is described as having physical parts like hand, arm, feet and ect. because to this day man can't explain what Spirit is. I've asked that here several times and have yet to receive an answer. 

GC

You spin me right 'round, GC right 'round like a record, GC right 'round, GC right 'round...

(August 10, 2015 at 10:05 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(August 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Like I said before you need to pay attention to what you read. When God had physical encounters with man it was Christ, not the Father. The reason God is described as having physical parts like hand, arm, feet and ect. because to this day man can't explain what Spirit is. I've asked that here several times and have yet to receive an answer. 

GC

You spin me right 'round, GC right 'round like a record, GC right 'round, GC right 'round...

And of coarse still no answer, actually there's nothing, emptiness, void, vacuum and on and on and on with nothingness.

GC

(August 11, 2015 at 5:32 am)Godschild Wrote: And of coarse still no answer, actually there's nothing, emptiness, void, vacuum and on and on and on with nothingness.

GC

From how I understand the thread GC, you have been asked to explain why god is described as a human form in the bible while you assert that he is just 'spirit'.

You then reply that it's because humans can't describe what a 'spirit' is, so they use human type metaphors instead.

You then blame us for not answering why we can't explain why man can't describe what 'spirit' is?

Is that a good summary?

Holeeee shit!

You ever wondered what might be the common sense conclusion as to why 'holy spirit' can't be given a description GC? Maybe, it's simply imagination at it's best.

(August 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm)Godschild Wrote: Like I said before you need to pay attention to what you read. When God had physical encounters with man it was Christ, not the Father. The reason God is described as having physical parts like hand, arm, feet and ect. because to this day man can't explain what Spirit is. I've asked that here several times and have yet to receive an answer. 

GC

Jenny A Wrote:I suppose it's an answer of sorts.  But I don't believe for a minute that those writing Genesis thought they were writing about Jesus instead of Yahweh when he had physical encounters with people.  What you have going there is a Christian rewrite of the OT.

Neither do I, they had no way of knowing that I know of. Yahweh refers to the trinity and since the Son is part of the trinity it makes sense, but not until Christ came to live a life here as a man. We see Christ all over the OT, why, because it's about Christ, from the fall own is about the redemptive need and plan for man through Christ, the OT is the witness to His coming.

Jenny A Wrote:Physical encounters with god in the OT are rather different than encounters with Jesus in the NT:

Sure they are, but Christ was always the one making a physical appearance in the OT, but that was the extent of it until He came to live, die and be resurrected for man's redemption in the NT. The OT foretold of His coming they knew who it was in the NT.

Quote: So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”
31 The sun rose above him as he passed Peniel, and he was limping because of his hip. 32 Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob’s hip was touched near the tendon.

Genesis 32: 22-31

JennyA Wrote:Doesn't sound remotely like Jesus to me. Sounds like old "I am who I am."  I doesn't sound like metaphorical wrestling either.  Wrenching your hip is not what happens in a mental struggle.

It was Jesus, if it were the Father Jacob would have died when he look at His face, this never happens with Jesus because He becomes like a man, which means He puts down His glory to interact with man in a physical way. The hip doesn't become wrenched with just the touch of a man's hand either, Jesus drew on the power of the Father to do this, this is how Jacob knew he had met God face to face, he just didn't realize what One of the trinity he had met. 

Jenny A Wrote:Nor do god's footsteps sound like an inability to describe god in the garden of Eden.  God doesn't just walk, he has foot falls and cares about the time of day for comfort reasons.  It's all very anthropomorphic.

You're right they heard the footsteps of God, God the Son. I'm not sure God was concerned about His comfort, probably was a special time in the Garden would be my guess, I'm sure God could have made it comfortable for himself and them if that was His only concern.
Anthropomorphic is right when it comes to describing the Yahweh, the Father is spirit yet described with human features, for our understanding. The Holy Spirit is spirit as the name implies and is described as a dove, the Holy Spirit being quite and peaceful. Christ came as man and will now always appear as a physical man, could be He has always had the appearance of a physical man, that would help answer some early OT questions wouldn't it, yet Christ is also described as a lamb at other times as a lion. Seems man had many needs to be answered through the many descriptions of Yahweh.

By the way encase you missed my post on avatars, I have a high regard for those who can work with water colors, my father always painted with oil and what little I did in the past was with oil, but have now taken my art to wood, hopefully I will be able to return to painting some day but it will more than likely be in acrylics. Keep up the good work in water colors they give a painting a softer feel, not so hard as oil and acrylics.

GC

So to summarize, Moses didn't know who the hell he was talking about when he was describing god in his story. Sometimes he was talking about jesus, sometimes he was talking about god. God kept the correct information from him as he inspired the Pentateuch.

(August 11, 2015 at 6:00 am)TubbyTubby Wrote:

(August 11, 2015 at 5:32 am)Godschild Wrote: And of coarse still no answer, actually there's nothing, emptiness, void, vacuum and on and on and on with nothingness.

GC

From how I understand the thread GC, you have been asked to explain why god is described as a human form in the bible while you assert that he is just 'spirit'.

You then reply that it's because humans can't describe what a 'spirit' is, so they use human type metaphors instead.

You then blame us for not answering why we can't explain why man can't describe what 'spirit' is?

Is that a good summary?

Holeeee shit!

You ever wondered what might be the common sense conclusion as to why 'holy spirit' can't be given a description GC? Maybe, it's simply imagination at it's best.

The verses can't be used as a metaphor because god interacts with humans with those body parts. In the story about Moses and the rock, God covers Moses's eyes with his hand. That is specific and so isn't a metaphor. Adam also hid because he heard god in the garden. Again, unless GC is one of the Christians who think the entire Old Testament is a metaphor, why would Adam be able to hear god walking in the garden if god's footfalls are just metaphor. Metaphors should serve some purpose or represent something and there is no purpose in having Adam hear god's footfalls. What exactly is god covering Moses's eyes with his hand supposed to represent?

We asked GC questions that he never answered. He hasn't said what he thinks the rock accomplished or why god's back would be less impressive than his front. All he has done is throw down a question and demanded we answer so he doesn't have to respond to the questions that were first asked of him

If Jesus's body was physically present with god in the garden than there is no need for the trinity. Even from a Christian point of view that makes the idea of Jesus being born even more ludicrous. Why wouldn't Jesus just come to earth fully formed? Why shrink down to be a baby?