Observation sample 3, Apostates.

The Quran clearly said:


These verses are clear, if certain hypocrites would turn on their back, that they would only be allowed to be killed if they go to the extent of fighting Muslims along with disbelievers who were at war with the Muslim. However, if they offer peace, there was no way against them.

Yet we see the rule of apostasy was that anyone turning on their back was to be killed. 

There is also the verse: "There is no compulsion in religion".

Observation 4, a verse about miracles.


One way verse 17:59 can be interpreted is that nothing prevented God from sending with the signs/miracles except that past generations rejected them. This was one reason I left Islam because this seemed to be the only possible way to read it.   All the tafsirs didn't suggest an alternative recitation but I've come to realize this is one of the Satanic traps to make us disbelieve in Quran. The more rational recitation would be that it's talking about miracles on demand, and saying we sent such signs on demand of disbelievers, and nothing is preventing us from sending more signs except the first people who made such demands rejected them.  As such God is not putting in demands of disbelievers to do everything they demand, because, they have no honesty having rejected the first miracles. 

This is saying - if the first people to demand such miracles among people of Mohammad didn't reject them, we would of responded to their demands like we did to the first ones, ,but it's obvious now they have no sincere intention in asking for such miracles, and are just making demands higher and higher, and will make demands higher and higher no matter what.

I've realized that there is no tafsir with this explanation, and this observation of something on the hearts preventing clear recitations, is become more and more apparent.

OR...

It's just all bullshit.

(July 20, 2015 at 10:00 am)MysticKnight Wrote: There is also the verse: "There is no compulsion in religion".

Sure, not in 'religion' by itself.
It's the religion's members you have to watch closely.
You know, the ones with the thumbscrews.
And the members that stand by while those with the thumbscrews get their jollies.
Without adherents, religion doesn't do much.  It just sort of sits there and decays.

"1. Age minimum for marriage.
2. The penalty for adultery.
3. The ruling regarding apostates.
4. The friendship of non-muslims.
5. A verse regarding miracles.
6. Regarding authority of the divinely appointed successors and the position of the family of Mohammad.
7. Hadithal thaqalain/ghadeer
8. Position of Harun to Musa hadith.
"
I am not exactly sure on how to quote, this is my first post. Now the Islam faith is the Muslim faith correct? So is it fair to say, for the sake of ignorance, that non-believing begins with ignorance of Islam, not the ignorance of others, just to appease and be polite?

Assuming everyone understands I am in no way trying to encourage anyone to deviate from their belief in a religion or beliefs in a religion, I will continue.

I have to look the following things up previously quoted about Islam to clarify definitions in order to have anything to add.

Starting with Islam, it is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion. The specifics of the faith allude me. I fail to find enough curiosity or time to spend looking it up, so with great hesitation and frustration of the task, do I instead tell you what comes to mind first when someone asks about the marital age, miracles, apostates, non-muslim friends, I will start with telling you Muhammad was an inexcusable injustice illustrated in the form of a work of theological significance that others mimic and follow by paying a price, doing time on their knees, without friends praying for a miracle hoping the penalty and appointed predecessor will pass them bye. Am I wrong?

Of course I apologize if I am being snide in your opinion or in some way callous or even close minded or you find it comical.
I am in no way being dimwitted. I know exactly what Muhammad did, what he wed, why these people have no non Muslim friends, why they prey for miracles hoping an appointed predecessor will pass them by while they are on their knees, they are being gracious they they are not a twat wiping, preying to a statue, cannibal Hindu.

If you cannot like cheap comedy that is in no way meant for anything other than an ignorant laugh as incentive to go study some Religion if that is what you like, I can't help I don't understand why you don't laugh. Dang, an apology was good enough for everyone else. Sorry.

Observation 5, the blindness to the Imams/family of Mohammad in Quran.


If Mohammad (saw) said "Indeed God made Ibrahim, Isaac, Yaqoub, and Yusuf into Imams who turning away from would lead to hell and submitting to would lead to heaven, O you who believe obey the Imams from you"

No sincere person would think Imams here means any type of leader but rather in context, it refers to Imams who are appointed by God to lead humanity like Ibrahim, Isaac, and Jacob.

Verse 3:33 say God chose the family of Ibrahim in the same we he chose Nuh which shows it's a family of only chosen exalted ones, and we read in verse 27:59 that peace is upon those who God has chosen.  We also read in 2:124 Ibrahim was honored by a certain type of leadership and asked that regarding his offspring, in which it was promised only those free from injustice would be bestowed such a leadership. It can be seen that such leadership is greater in God's eyes then worldly kingdom of the Pharaoh, and so when Quran states:



It makes sense that authority is in reference to the divine leadership they had which was primarily spiritual although covered political and social authority, that being the true great authority the family of Ibrahim was given also emphasized by emphasis on necessity of not turning away from it and believing in it, and the link to that to God's Ayat (signs/guidance/what leads to God) and belief in that and disbelief in that, all emphasizes it's about the divine authority. Then in this context we are told to obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from us, showing it's one and the same type of divine authority, and this obedience is to the extent we refer all disputes back to God and his MEssenger showing it's part of obedience to Ulil-Amr (Those who possess the authority) to refer back to Quran and Sunnah, showing they always command to Quran and Sunnah. 

The question is it unclear when pondered about? I would say it isn't. Obviously the same divine authority of the family of Ibrahim is what is meant by "the authority" that Ulil-Amr hold and possess, and it's not just "those who posses authority" but "the authority" implying it's comprehensive complete authority given the context of authority of the family of Ibrahim.

I would say the fact it didn't say "verily we given the Prophets" or "we given Ibrahim" but rather states "family of Ibrahim" shows that the Messenger and Ulil-Amr are a divinely appointed family like the family of Ibrahim, and so it manifests they are the family of Mohammad. 

They are contrasted to that, saying, God chose from the offspring of Ibrahim, and made them into Imams, so will people envy the family of Mohammad and the Imams from his offspring, while accepting the Imams from the offspring of Ibrahim? 

Why does majority of Muslims not see this instance of the divinely appointed possessors of the authority from us? Why do they interpret to mean secular authority despite the context being that of divine authority? That of the authority of Ibrahim, Isaac, Yaqoub, and Yusuf?

This is indeed a veil. Something is going on here. And what is more is the verses talk about the Jibt which is a sorcery reminding that these envied people have unseen enemies who make people believe in the Taghut (inordinate authority) through dark influence on the hearts. And it's these very indortinate authority that we been commanded to disbelieve in that most Muslims think God is commanding us to obey in 4:59. 

This reminder right before it, and in contrast of the divine authority vs the Taghut/Jibt, is clear. It's just there is blindness, something, that makes people not reflect properly and see the blessed recitation.

And the verses that follow remind that every Messenger that was sent was sent to be obeyed by God's permission, reminding of the divine authority. The fact that family of Ibrahim was singled out was to emphasize the wisdom of divinely chosen families and not to envy Rasool and Ulil-Amr who are also such a divinely chosen family, while the reminder of obedience to all Messengers was to emphasize on the divine authority even further. There is more instances of blindness to them in Quran. And this is just scratching the surface.

1. The Koran does not really allow or require things MK thinks are evil.
2. Other Muslims think it does require things MK thinks are evil.
3. MK thinks that this is because there is a supernatural dark influence involved.

I think you have to wear blinders to think the bad parts of the Koran aren't there. But while I'm grateful that some moderates can put on the blinders, I'd prefer no one took their morals from that book at all.

Observation 5, blindness to the family of Mohammad continued.

One of the clearest verses about the family of Mohammad in Quran is 42:23.
 
Whatever "Al-Qurba" means, it has been linked to being grateful for the message.
 
That is the good news God gives to his servants of those who believe and do good, say: no wage do I ask for it except the love in Al-Qurba and whoever do does good, we will increase him therein, verily God is forgiving thankful/grateful.
 
The three possible meanings of Al-Qurba is kinship, kin, or closeness. As closeness needs a phrase to emphasize closeness to what, if God for example, it would mention "ilallah", this is not the meaning and it goes against convention of the language to assume that meaning. As kinship in general cannot be something in which the entire message would be shown gratefulness to by loving, it's not the meaning either. General meaning of kin cannot be the meaning either as that is not linked to being grateful to the message. Whatever al-Qurba means here, it has to be integral part of the message, a central role, the inward point of it, the goal of it, that showing loving towards it, would be showing gratefulness to the message. 
 
 
34:47 Say: whatever I have asked of you of a wage, it is for yourselves, verily my wage is with God and he is a witness upon all things.
 
This verse shows this in fact was not the wage of Mohammad (saw), for his wage was with Allah (awj), as Allah is a witness upon all things, God witnessing his acts was where his reward truly lied, instead of a reward from the people. The truth was he was rather asking a wage for our sake. The same Surah emphasized "O family of Dawood, do acts of thankfulness/gratefulness, and verily few of my servants are grateful/thankful".
 
The wage asked by Mohammad (saw) was asked on behalf of God, as God told him to ask this wage, and was a way to be grateful to him for the message.  If we truly appreciate the message Mohammad (saw) came with, we will appreciate Al-Qurba and love Al-Qurba, as Al-Qurba are the central part of the message.
 
Now on reflection, as they have been linked to showing gratefulness to the message, they have be chosen for the religion. This cannot be but a chosen exalted family type meaning. The true family of Mohammad (saw) which like the family of Nuh (as) cannot include those who act other then righteously. And like the family of Ibrahim (as), is of the chosen ones only.
 
25:57 Say: No wage have I asked of you for it, except for who wants to take towards his Lord a path.
 
This shows Al-Qurba are a path to the whole nation, and are hence always ahead of the believers, are the path for everyone to take no matter how high they are. This shows they are the best of the nation.
 
Now two things to notice, in Surah 25, there was emphasis on Harun (as) being a Vizier of Musa (as). Accepting Harun (as) with Musa (as) was part of the message, and Harun (as) was chosen because he was "better in tongue/speech" and this probably referred to conveying the higher truths in which Musa (as) felt there was a knot on his tongue. Ali (as) was likewise said to the door the house of the wisdom, or the gate to the city of the knowledge, and hence his loving and following him and recognizing him, was part of the path towards God, like following Harun (as) was part of the path towards God while Musa (as) was there. In fact, those who followed Harun (as) automatically followed Musa (as) while not all those who claimed to follow Musa (as) followed Harun (as). 
 
The second thing to notice, in Surah 34, there was emphasis on the rule of Dawood (as) and Sulaiman (as). In the same way, if the world accepts the Khalifate of Ahlulbayt (as) and comes to the last of the Imam (as), they will be ruled by the rule of justice of Dawood (as), the rule of Mohammad (saw), the rule of God. 
 
This is a favor of God, and the place of it, emphasizes on the rule of his chosen ones.
 
6:90 These are they who God has guided therefore follow their guidance. Say: I do not ask you a wage for it that it be but a reminder/remembrance to the worlds.
 
This verse is put in place right after emphasizing on the guidance of the Prophets, then telling Mohammad (saw) to follow their guidance, then it says the wage is but a remembrance/reminder to worlds/peoples/nations. This shows in the same way Mohammad (saw) follows the light of the Prophets (as) and takes guidance by their guidance and thereby remembers the path of Praiseworthy Lord, and ascends to God, the same is true of the wage of the message, it proves a remembrance to the unseen path towards God, and reminds of the light. The context is emphasizing on the guidance of his chosen ones. It again gives credence to the al-Qurba being of the chosen exalted ones who God wants humanity and Jinn to follow their guidance, and it's a reminder and remembrance to the Alameen. 
 
12:104 And you do not ask them a wage for it that is but a remembrance/reminder to the worlds/nations/peoples.
 
This verse is stated in context of the exalted chosen family of Ibrahim, particularly narrating the roles of Yaqoub and Yusuf, and the story of Yusuf. There is also a parable in the form of the shirt of Yusuf healing Yaqoubs eyes, that love of God's chosen would similarly honor us with their robes from the unseen honor and beauty of God, and heal our blindness and make us see the path. Their Imammate and Wilayah is about giving sight to the path of God and the light of God. In the same way, the wage of loving Al-Qurba is emphasized to be a remembrance/reminder, which is remembrance of the light and unseen path of God.
 
 
23:72-73Or do you ask them a wage? Then surely the wage of your Lord is better, and he is the best of those who provide sustenance. And surely you call them to a straight path.
 
The Surah was emphasizing on the path of believers and then reminded of how God sent Messengers and the punishment of rejecting them. It also emphasizing "Do they not recognize their Messenger so they are in denial of him". 
 
It can be seen in the same way Nuh (as) was the way towards God, that Al-Qurba are the way towards God. The placement after emphasis to adhere to God's chosen ones again gives way to the chosen exalted kin meaning.
 
(38:86-88)Say: I do not ask you for it any wage - and I am not of those who affect -
That it be but a reminder/remembrance to the worlds.
And ye shall certainly the truth of it after a time.
 
The Surah 38 emphasizes on God's chosen ones and reminds of chosen offspring like Sulaiman (as) to Dawood (as), and Isaac (as) and Yaqoub (as) to Ibrahim (as). It also then reminds us of God telling Angels to prostrate to Adam (as) and all did it except Iblis. It also asks Iblis if he is arrogant or is he one of the exalted ones/high ones. 
 
We then see emphasis that the wage is a remembrance to the worlds at the end of the Surah, emphasizing we will come to know of it's news and truth after a while, showing there is a unseen reality to this love, and it's a unseen path to Allah, that we will come to know of. This again, by flow, confirms it's about the chosen family of Mohammad (saw), a family of chosen exalted ones.
 
Or do you ask them a wage so that they are over overburdened by a debt? (52:40, 68:46)
 
This shows the wage has nothing to do with material wealth being given to the family of Mohammad (saw). Interesting is the Surah 52 opens by swearing by the mountain, while Harun's (as) name means exalted mountain, and Ali (as) is the Harun (as) of Mohammad (saw) by hadiths, and shares his position with Mohammad (saw) as did Harun (as) did with Musa (as) except that he is not a Prophet. Surah 68:46 begins with Noon which can be reference to light and emphasizes that his reward is never cut off, showing the wage he asks is not for himself, but on behalf of God so we be grateful to God for the message.  Consequently the wage of the message is linked to the following the light of Mohammad (saw) and perfecting the Aqel with the spiritual pen of reason and light. These places again show that God wants us to remember the wage of the message, and it has central importance with the the message and Mohammad (saw).
 
When we see this reminder in the Quran, we see that it has a central importance. The Al-Qurba cannot be just normal people but must exalted chosen people who God has made the means toward himself and the way to remember his unseen path and light.



However, we see in real life, people forget these verses all go together, and scholars of the majority of Muslims have said it means kinship between Quraysh and Mohammad (saw).

This while some of them did consider it possibility and some did consider it to be the case (like Imam Shafi), most didn't appreciate the meaning.

What prevents people from remembering 42:23 whenever coming across other wage verses? Something is a mist!

Oh lordy, please save us for this Darkness on Our Hearts!

My Heart is Dark with Blackness! I fear a Demon has come to abide in my Heart's Abode!

Gibber jabber, Gibber jabber.

Gibber.

Jabber.

MysticKnight, I say this in the nicest way I can -
YOU NEED TO GET LAID. NOW. NOT SOON. BUT NOW.
We'll see how much dark influence you have left when you're pulling the bedsheets out of your arse after receiving a typhoon-level BJ that followed a four and a half hour reverse cowgirl doggy style oh-yes-sir-call-me-a-bad-pupil-again anal vaginal earful fuckfest that starts in the kitchen, continues on the stairs and reaches it's conclusion on the bedroom floor.
You'll never implement those locks again, my boy!!