(August 26, 2015 at 7:36 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Do you seriously think this issue is remotely related to an inanimate object?

Yes.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of over-complication by the people who don't want to face the obvious fact.

Guns are the problem.


Since the Port Arthur massacre in Australia they banned guns. Hasn't been a massacre there since.

This really isn't rocket science.

(August 26, 2015 at 6:40 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Like I said, people like to bring up "oh I'm a responsible gun owner". Well no shit, responsible gun owners aren't the problem and responsible gun owners aren't the reason we are even having this argument.

The solution should be aimed, if you'll pardon the pun, at the problem. Disarming legal gun owners would perhaps be acceptable, by Constitutional amendment, if you could assure that irresponsible gun owners were accounted for as well. But you cannot wave a magic la -- er, wand -- and get illegal gun owners to turn in without concrete suggestions that incentivize them to do so.

I have no problem with a rancher owning an AR-15 -- it's a great gun for hitting predators accurately at long range -- so long as the rancher is vetted and the gun is controlled so that none other may shoot it. That rancher is not likely to be a law-enforcement issue anyway. The problem I see is with handguns being unlicensed and subject to purchase by any man-jack with the money. Control who can buy them, and control who can shoot them.

The owner has a responsibility to society to demonstrate his or her responsibility. Surely we agree on that, right?

(August 26, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: I'm not a supporter of any kind of gun law.  Every citizen should be able to own, possess, and carry guns without exception.  I'm sure that most, if not all, of my neighbors have guns in their houses.  I've never been concerned about any of them in any city I've ever been in shooting up the place.

I totally disagree. If you own an instrument designed to deal death, you owe it to those around you to demonstrate your ability to make good judgements in times of stress.

The way I understand, I may be wrong, but if you want to adopt a child, the powers that be will come investigate your house and interview you. Owning a gun should come with that and then some.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Exian Wrote: The way I understand, I may be wrong, but if you want to adopt a child, the powers that be will come investigate your house and interview you. Owning a gun should come with that and then some.

To turn the common gun-owner analogy on its head: I own a vehicle. I must regularly demonstrate to the authorities that I am capable of operating the vehicle without diminished capacity.

I certainly don't think gun-owners should be exempt from that expectation.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The owner has a responsibility to society to demonstrate his or her responsibility. Surely we agree on that, right?

Yeah, and if people could do that I'd be all for allowing guns. But like I said, you have to play to the 1% who fuck things up for everyone else.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:39 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(August 26, 2015 at 7:36 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Do you seriously think this issue is remotely related to an inanimate object?

Yes.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of over-complication by the people who don't want to face the obvious fact.

Guns are the problem.


Since the Port Arthur massacre in Australia they banned guns. Hasn't been a massacre there since.

This really isn't rocket science.

You are oversimplifying things. You presume that not having massacres is of primal concern. It's not. FREEDOM is of primal concern. Eliminating massacres is a good thing but if it comes at the cost of freedom, the price is too high. Get it?

I don't expect you to agree with it but if you want to have any influence here, you sure as hell better understand it because that's the mindset you're up against. Poo-pooing it will get you nothing but scorn. If you want to be heard, you must speak the language. You must understand the mindset of the person you are trying to persuade and address their concerns. You can just tell them to fuck off, of course but that won't accomplish anything. If anything, freedom-obsessed people feed on that kind of thing.

Um, most western countries DO NOT ban all guns, that is myth, not even Japan has an all out ban, but they crawl up your ass to make sure you are not nuts, but most Japanese don't want them because they do not have the gun deaths we do. But the other countries, like Japan and Australia don't have a fetish and blind worship of guns.

A total ban in America won't work, but we can do better limiting access and production. I am for bans on automatic weapons and big clips. I am for longer wait periods, mandatory background checks, anual training like retaking your drivers test,end online sales, end the gun show loophole. Mandatory mental evaluation, investment in mental health and better pay for both middle class and low wage workers and free public college.

But no I am not for an all out ban.

(August 26, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: I'm not a supporter of any kind of gun law. Every citizen should be able to own, possess, and carry guns without exception. I'm sure that most, if not all, of my neighbors have guns in their houses. I've never been concerned about any of them in any city I've ever been in shooting up the place.

That's because you're a goddamn moron, see.
Replace 'guns' with 'cars' and 'shooting up the place' with 'running motherfuckers over' and you might see where I'm coming from. I live in hope.

By all means allow people to have guns, but make jolly well sure they are mentally competent enough to use it responsibly and recreationally. If you need a license, rigorous amounts of lessons, tests, and insurance to own and operate a half-ton vehicle perfectly capable of killing people, then you need the same if not more to ensure you can own and operate devices with the sole purpose of being able to kill people.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(August 26, 2015 at 6:42 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: I'm not a supporter of any kind of gun law.  Every citizen should be able to own, possess, and carry guns without exception.  I'm sure that most, if not all, of my neighbors have guns in their houses.  I've never been concerned about any of them in any city I've ever been in shooting up the place.

I totally disagree. If you own an instrument designed to deal death, you owe it to those around you to demonstrate your ability to make good judgements in times of stress.

You don't need a license to own knives or rocks.  And they have killed millions if not billions of people throughout history.  

Guns are an efficient tool to use to level the playing field between people.  They help the oppressed resist the oppressors.