(August 26, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Um, most western countries DO NOT ban all guns, that is myth, not even Japan has an all out ban, but they crawl up your ass to make sure you are not nuts, but most Japanese don't want them because they do not have the gun deaths we do. But the other countries, like Japan and Australia don't have a fetish and blind worship of guns.

A total ban in America won't work, but we can do better limiting access and production. I am for bans on automatic weapons and big clips. I am for longer wait periods, mandatory background checks, anual training like retaking your drivers test,end online sales, end the gun show loophole. Mandatory mental evaluation, investment in mental health and better pay for both middle class and low wage workers and free public college.

But no I am not for an all out ban.

I have no problem with any of the solutions that you have put forward, in fact I'd welcome them. Thank you. (said the paranoid ignoramus that is protecting an object as if it had human rights)

(August 26, 2015 at 7:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I am for bans on automatic weapons

Why? The private ownership of automatic weapons in the US has been heavily regulated for more than 80 years. In that time the only person convicted of murdering someone with a legally owned privately held automatic weapon was an Ohio police officer. Automatic weapons aren't the problem, and the way they are controlled ought to serve as a model for future regulation of other types of firearms.

Quote:end online sales

Please explain how you think online gun sales work, and why you believe they are a problem.

Quote:end the gun show loophole

Once again please explain your understanding of what the gun show loophole is, and why you believe it is a problem.

All of this talk about guns avoids the actual issue: people. People with mental illnesses, people who feel so deprived of hope and purpose, and so devoid of any moral sense, that they murder another human being - with gun, car, knife, bare hands, etc. Guns are just the easy target for politicians to use as a means of manipulating people's emotions and garnering support for their own selfish agenda.

You can't separate the two, Nestor.  Lots of industrialized countries have crazy bastards.  What they do not have is easy access to guns.  Fuck the NRA.  It makes a difference.

As usual the answer is money.  In the 70's we began the process of deinstitutionalization on the theory that they could be treated more "efficiently" in smaller group homes where their medication would be monitored.  The problem there is that they forgot one thing.  These people are crazy.  They stop taking their meds.  And when they do all hell breaks loose.

The wonderful 'Murrican health system that the republicunts swear existed before Obamacare was never very effective on mental health issues.

And here we sit.

In a sea of blood.

(August 26, 2015 at 11:22 pm)Nestor Wrote: All of this talk about guns avoids the actual issue: people. 

All of this talk about people avoids the actual issue: guns.

(August 26, 2015 at 11:34 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You can't separate the two, Nestor.

This is the crux of the issue for me. Lots of people are determined to divert attention away from guns and ignore them, acting like the problem is something else entirely.

No other civilised/first world country has such easy access to murder tools as what America does. And yet people talk like they have mental health issues to sort out that are different to what other countries also have? When what is actually different and what is actually the problem gets avoided, time and time again.

The problem is not mental health. Mental health issues affect every country on Earth. What is different with the US is the relatively easy access that people have to firearms. Yes you can murder other people with a car, or a knife, or your bare hands. But anyone who uses such a lame ass argument is avoiding the actual problem. You don't have mass shootings with knives. You can't use a gun to take you to work every morning either.

In the case of this particular story, he may well have still tried to kill these people due to his mental health issues. But what is so hard for people to get about the fact that his actions were made so much easier because of the prevalence of guns in the US.

A similar story in the UK is far more rare (hell, it doesn't happen at all) for instance because we don't have a stupid gun culture that dictates to us that we have a right to bear arms.

I think it's easier to shoot people too. You don't have to get your hands dirty, for one, and lets say you go on a knifing spree, you're less likely to knife yourself to death afterwards.

Another thing, we've all been there. We've all been wronged and angry, and it passes. Luckily, we've allowed it to pass, but in those moments, you could just as easily buy a gun and shoot you're problem. Hell, life is so mixed up sometimes, you have no choice but to be in those situations, on either end. I had a jealous guy use a painting a girl painted for me as target practice... we're cool now, but it could have ended way not cool.

My wife told me this news, oh my god it's horrible My thoughts go out to the friends and families of the victims. It must have been traumatising for anyone who saw this happen live too.

I hate guns. I count myself lucky that I've never even seen a real one in person.

(August 26, 2015 at 11:34 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You can't separate the two, Nestor.  Lots of industrialized countries have crazy bastards.  What they do not have is easy access to guns.  Fuck the NRA.  It makes a difference.

We have easy access to guns. Not as easy as in the USA, but easier than in Germany or any other nighbouring countries. The results are nearly as much gun related deaths as in the USA per capita. Although hereabouts the crazies tend to top themselves rather than topping others.

But we have similar incidenst a few times a year. Such as sonny finding daddys unlocked shooter and greeting auntie with two barrels to the face. Or the drunken husband offing his wife. In fact, the latter happens more often. It's one of the most common forms of homicide. Often ending as murder suicide.

That's a short overview of our gun laws.

Quote:        Category A - Forbidden weapons and military weapons
           Military weapons:
               Automatic Weapons
               Semi automatic rifles not approved for civilian use
           Forbidden weapons:
               firearms disguised as other objects,
               fast collapsible, shortenable or demountable weapons,
               shotguns with an overall length under 90 cm and/or a barrel length under 45 cm,
               silencers
               weaponlights for rifles
               brass knuckles
               Totschläger (translation missing) (a flexible baton with a metal ball at the end)
               Stahlruten (translation missing) (a slightly flexible baton)

And that's where the real easy access fun begins, since most murders or suicides are committed with one of those.

Quote:Category D - other Weapons: Break action shotguns. All Austrian citizens aged 18 or over can freely buy and own this type of weapon, but ownership has to be registered at a licensed dealer or gunsmith within 6 weeks of purchase (Typically, if bought in a store, the store registers them after doing the required background check). This category was removed and all category D weapons are now category C weapons.

The fact that they have been moved to category C points to the amounts of dead bodies being left in the wake of the more liberal legislation. It also doesn't change the fact that uncounted numbers of these kinds of weapons are still unanccounted for, since they have been bought before the new laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_o...on#Austria

This will sound callous but when this happens I find it hard to care anymore. The US knows what the problem is, they simply refuse to solve this problem. A large section of the American population seem to have decided that these incidents are a perfectly acceptable price to pay for keeping guns.