(September 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Randy wrote:  "Or is it more likely that having been influenced by Nietzsche, Hitler had no qualms about murdering anyone who stood in his way? Natural selection and all that."

There just aren't enough face palms in the world for this.  Hitler was "influenced" by Nietzsche precisely to the extent that Hitler didn't understand a damn thing about Nietzsche and cherry picked passages from Nietzsche's works to suit his own prejudices, as did most of the Nazi hacks who claimed kinship with Nietzsche.  Whatever the problems with Nietzsche's thoughts on myriad subjects (I disagree with him often), he was certainly not an anti-Semite or a fan of the State (especially the German State as he knew it under Bismarck), he considered Herbert Spencer a joke, and the thought that Nietzsche had in mind someone like Hitler when he wrote of the Ubermensch is laughable. He would have loathed the Third Reich with every fiber of his being and would have been outraged and heartbroken at the Holocaust.

Pro-tip: In Twilight of the Idols, Nietzsche provides a clear example of someone he considers a model of Ubermensch:  Goethe.

If you have some expertise in this area, Crossless, then I will defer to you. But let me say that a quick Google search returns quite a number of articles suggesting that Hitler and the Nazis were eager to incorporate some of Nietzsche's ideas into their own plans and thinking.

You may have the last word.

(September 22, 2015 at 4:47 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(September 22, 2015 at 4:46 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I was in Cancun, now I'm back to being the brotha y'all luv to h8..

That's a good picture, dude. You should make that your new avatar pic. For real.

Agreed!

(September 22, 2015 at 5:25 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: If you have some expertise in this area, Crossless, then I will defer to you. But let me say that a quick Google search returns quite a number of articles suggesting that Hitler and the Nazis were eager to incorporate some of Nietzsche's ideas into their own plans and thinking.

That's why google's not your friend. Real books are. You know this papery blocks, you can hardly use for toilet paper. Unless you want to stay an idiot, of course.

60 pages...

(September 22, 2015 at 5:25 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Randy wrote:  "Or is it more likely that having been influenced by Nietzsche, Hitler had no qualms about murdering anyone who stood in his way? Natural selection and all that."

There just aren't enough face palms in the world for this.  Hitler was "influenced" by Nietzsche precisely to the extent that Hitler didn't understand a damn thing about Nietzsche and cherry picked passages from Nietzsche's works to suit his own prejudices, as did most of the Nazi hacks who claimed kinship with Nietzsche.  Whatever the problems with Nietzsche's thoughts on myriad subjects (I disagree with him often), he was certainly not an anti-Semite or a fan of the State (especially the German State as he knew it under Bismarck), he considered Herbert Spencer a joke, and the thought that Nietzsche had in mind someone like Hitler when he wrote of the Ubermensch is laughable. He would have loathed the Third Reich with every fiber of his being and would have been outraged and heartbroken at the Holocaust.

Pro-tip: In Twilight of the Idols, Nietzsche provides a clear example of someone he considers a model of Ubermensch:  Goethe.

If you have some expertise in this area, Crossless, then I will defer to you. But let me say that a quick Google search returns quite a number of articles suggesting that Hitler and the Nazis were eager to incorporate some of Nietzsche's ideas into their own plans and thinking.

You may have the last word.

Let me put it this way: Hitler and the National Socialists incorporated Nietzsche in rather the same way that some crackpots in the Christian camp "incorporate" the Bible into their worldviews without bothering to responsibly read the Bible and really understand it.  I'm pretty certain that Nietzsche would have hated Hitler's fucking guts.

(September 22, 2015 at 5:19 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: The question I would seriously like to see answered is why it's so hard for people who pull the "Stalin was an atheist mass murderer!" trope out to stop, look at the responses, and go,

"Okay, I guess that's a fair point, that he wasn't killing because of his atheism but because he was silencing anyone who stood in the way of his power or who was perceived as a threat to it, like tyrants have done throughout history."

They just go right on believing that when the Conquistadors committed mass murder, it wasn't because they were Christians but because they were power- and wealth-hungry sociopaths... yet when atheist power- and wealth-hungry sociopaths do it, IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE ATHEISTS! Aaaaaaaaah! Evil atheists!! Aaaaaaaah!

The reason the connection between atheism and Stalin or Pol Pot is so obvious is because what they did is a natural result of what they believed.

Human life is of no real value if natural selection means that only the strong survive or that less desirable elements of our society - like the Jews, the Poles, the Blacks, the mentally handicapped, etc. (cf. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood) - should be eliminated.

And despite the attempts to find a Christian parallel from some dusty period of history, there simply aren't isn't anything like the murder committed under atheist communist regimes in the supposedly enlightened modern era.

So much for mankind evolving into a better and better version of itself.

(September 22, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 22, 2015 at 5:19 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: The question I would seriously like to see answered is why it's so hard for people who pull the "Stalin was an atheist mass murderer!" trope out to stop, look at the responses, and go,

"Okay, I guess that's a fair point, that he wasn't killing because of his atheism but because he was silencing anyone who stood in the way of his power or who was perceived as a threat to it, like tyrants have done throughout history."

They just go right on believing that when the Conquistadors committed mass murder, it wasn't because they were Christians but because they were power- and wealth-hungry sociopaths... yet when atheist power- and wealth-hungry sociopaths do it, IT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE ATHEISTS! Aaaaaaaaah! Evil atheists!! Aaaaaaaah!

The reason the connection between atheism and Stalin or Pol Pot is so obvious is because what they did is a natural result of what they believed.

Human life is of no real value if natural selection means that only the strong survive or that less desirable elements of our society - like the Jews, the Poles, the Blacks, the mentally handicapped, etc. (cf. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood) - should be eliminated.

And despite the attempts to find a Christian parallel from some dusty period of history, there simply aren't isn't anything like the murder committed under atheist communist regimes in the supposedly enlightened modern era.

So much for mankind evolving into a better and better version of itself.

I was going to comment on how the only 'belief' associated with atheism is 'i do not believe in god', but somehow, just somehow I doubt that point would come across to you.

(September 22, 2015 at 5:28 pm)Napoléon Wrote: 60 pages...

And it even had some quality until Huggy came in. Randy's of course in his element now. Copy pasting as if there's no tomorrow.

(September 22, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Let me put it this way: Hitler and the National Socialists incorporated Nietzsche in rather the same way that some crackpots in the Christian camp "incorporate" the Bible into their worldviews without bothering to responsibly read the Bible and really understand it.  I'm pretty certain that Nietzsche would have hated Hitler's fucking guts.

Go, ask Randy if he knows about Guido von List, Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels, Georg Ritter von Schönerer, Karl Lueger.

I'm sure he can google these names, but I highly doubt he can make the connection. He couldn't in the past and why should he of all persons decide to educate himself before running his virtual mouuth.

(September 22, 2015 at 5:34 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 22, 2015 at 5:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The reason the connection between atheism and Stalin or Pol Pot is so obvious is because what they did is a natural result of what they believed.

Human life is of no real value if natural selection means that only the strong survive or that less desirable elements of our society - like the Jews, the Poles, the Blacks, the mentally handicapped, etc. (cf. Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood) - should be eliminated.

And despite the attempts to find a Christian parallel from some dusty period of history, there simply aren't isn't anything like the murder committed under atheist communist regimes in the supposedly enlightened modern era.

So much for mankind evolving into a better and better version of itself.

I was going to comment on how the only 'belief' associated with atheism is 'i do not believe in god', but somehow, just somehow I doubt that point would come across to you.

I'd be delighted to hear an articulate explanation of why anyone would care two hoots about slaughtering a few million people if there was no compelling objective moral reason for them not to do so if they honestly believed it was in their own interest or that of the nation which they were trying to build.

Alpha males get to mate with all the females. Alpha dictators get to kill off all the males who disagree with him.