The practice of designating the term "pervert" to homosexuality, always kind of puzzled me.

If you want to deem something an "abomination" and an "offense to God"
based on your personal choice of Holy Writ,
that's one thing;

(As long, of course, as you don't use your religion,
in a free country,
to try to justify limiting the freedoms of those
who do not share your religious views)

...then you can believe that if you want.  No problem.

However,

It is a whole 'nother ball of wax, entirely,
for any human being to consider themselves "normal"
and designate someone else as "perverse",
unless the alleged pervert:

- wants to have sex with any human against their will, or utilize psychological abuse to manipulate another,
- wants to cause significant injury or death, or is pleasured by witnessing injury or death,
- wants to have sex with any human who hasn't reached maturity yet,
- or with any deceased human remains,
....or with anything that isn't human, at all.

Because human sexuality is an ocean of complexities....even if you're straight.

The simple machinations of what people do is not really the point.

Like they say,

90% of human sexuality is between the ears,
not between the legs.

And this applies just as much to straight people as to gay.

I'm a straight woman and really quite vanilla in the bedroom,
but it's taken me decades to really learn my own mind,
and the subtleties of the complex psychological aspect of my sexuality;

and to realize the importance of finding a man whose sexual psychology
dovetails with my own.

There are plenty of straight men who have a subtle pervy kink, here or there;
....and many of those straight men are homophobes....which to me is highly hypocritical.

There are GAY men who just like to have sex and be affectionate,
which to me, is quite vanilla,

but there are STRAIGHT men who only like to have sex with women
in fuzzy plush costumes whilst crushing empty soda cans underfoot,
stuffing luncheon meats in their armpits,
singing showtunes, and boiling radishes on the stove.

To me, the latter is far kinkier;

 yet, I can accept it, as long as everyone is a living, consenting, mature, human being,
and no one is being injured or killed.

So I can't but scoff at anyone who is so unsophisticated and emotionally adolescent
as to presume to designate a fellow human "perverse"
simply for the insignificant, negligible triviality of both partners being of the same gender...

...and, conversely, have the arrogance to present themselves as "normal".

So believe it is a sin, if you want,

but tread carefully before deigning to assign the term "perverse" to a fellow human.

In other words, Judge not lest ye be judged:

Let him who is without perversity cast the first point and giggle.

(September 27, 2015 at 11:04 pm)MTL Wrote: Brad Pitt (obviously)    hot
George Clooney           not
Johnny Depp               ewwwwwww ICK !!!
Ryan Gosling                a little hot
Zac Efron                     nope
Jake Gyllenhaal             can no longer answer in regards to appearance, am in love with a character he portrayed
Will Smith                     borderline, does better as he ages
Jamie Foxx                  nope
Daniel Craig                 ewwwwwwww ICK !!!
James Franco              can't explain this one at all, smoking HOT, total mystery
Ryan Reynolds            iffy
Ralph Fiennes              iffy
Harrison Ford               just keeps getting better !!!
Matthew McConaghey  OMG NO, a THOUSAND times NO !!! GROSS ICK PTUI !!!
Matt Damon                 iffy
Wesley Snipes               iffy
Denzel Washington       aging nicely
Jude Law                      ICK !
Ewan McGregor            HOT !!,  and getting better !!!
Leonardo DiCaprio        OMG NO !!!, I'd rather be with a woman !!
Orlando Bloom              ditto !!
Gerard Butler                 don't know who that is
Bradley Cooper              smoking hot, needs to quit shaving
David Beckham             somewhat
Robert Pattinson           don't recognize name
Hugh Jackman              don't no why he doesn't do anything for me but he doesn't
Hugh Grant                    Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Henry Cavill                     Smoking hot !!!


Male celebrities I find somewhat attractive:

Clive Owen                         don't know who that is
Jason Statham                   hot
Benedict Cumberbatch       ??
Heath Ledger                      same as Jake G
Alex Minsky                         ??
Antonio Banderas                oh yeah!
Matt Smith                           ??

And male celebrities I definitely find attractive:


Viggo Mortensen                 depends on character he portrays
Hugh Laurie                         oh, yeah, play doctor with him
Crispin Glover                       iffy
John Cusack                        iffy trending to not

Steve Harvey, hot till he talks

David Wenham OMFG, I want to have his baby !!

Peter Horton ditto

Snoop Dog kinda hot if he'd lay off the ganja

(September 28, 2015 at 11:13 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(September 27, 2015 at 11:04 pm)MTL Wrote: Brad Pitt (obviously)    hot
George Clooney           not
Johnny Depp               ewwwwwww ICK !!!
Ryan Gosling                a little hot
Zac Efron                     nope
Jake Gyllenhaal             can no longer answer in regards to appearance, am in love with a character he portrayed
Will Smith                     borderline, does better as he ages
Jamie Foxx                  nope
Daniel Craig                 ewwwwwwww ICK !!!
James Franco              can't explain this one at all, smoking HOT, total mystery
Ryan Reynolds            iffy
Ralph Fiennes              iffy
Harrison Ford               just keeps getting better !!!
Matthew McConaghey  OMG NO, a THOUSAND times NO !!! GROSS ICK PTUI !!!
Matt Damon                 iffy
Wesley Snipes               iffy
Denzel Washington       aging nicely
Jude Law                      ICK !
Ewan McGregor            HOT !!,  and getting better !!!
Leonardo DiCaprio        OMG NO !!!, I'd rather be with a woman !!
Orlando Bloom              ditto !!
Gerard Butler                 don't know who that is
Bradley Cooper              smoking hot, needs to quit shaving
David Beckham             somewhat
Robert Pattinson           don't recognize name
Hugh Jackman              don't no why he doesn't do anything for me but he doesn't
Hugh Grant                    Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Henry Cavill                     Smoking hot !!!


Male celebrities I find somewhat attractive:

Clive Owen                         don't know who that is
Jason Statham                   hot
Benedict Cumberbatch       ??
Heath Ledger                      same as Jake G
Alex Minsky                         ??
Antonio Banderas                oh yeah!
Matt Smith                           ??

And male celebrities I definitely find attractive:


Viggo Mortensen                 depends on character he portrays
Hugh Laurie                         oh, yeah, play doctor with him
Crispin Glover                       iffy
John Cusack                        iffy trending to not

Vorlon, thank you for going to the trouble to detail your responses!

Very interesting!!

(September 28, 2015 at 11:20 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Steve Harvey, hot till he talks

David Wenham  OMFG, I want to have his baby !!

Peter Horton  ditto

Snoop Dog kinda hot if he'd lay off the ganja

I can't say any of those men do anything for me,
but I agree with you wholeheartedly about Steve Harvey opening his mouth!!!!

(September 28, 2015 at 10:59 am)MTL Wrote: The practice of designating the term "pervert" to homosexuality, always kind of puzzled me... So I can't but scoff at anyone who is so unsophisticated and emotionally adolescent as to presume to designate a fellow human "perverse"..simply for the insignificant, negligible triviality of both partners being of the same gender...

What is unsophisticated and immature is looking only to the satisfaction of sensual desires as the source of happiness and emotional fulfillment. The list of perversions is endless. Homosexuality is just one of many. Perversity is the abuse or misdirection of any natural function, physical, emotional or intellectual. Turning natural desires away from their proper ends is perversion of those desires. For example, bribery is a perversion of justice. Abortion and euthanasia are perversions of medicine. Socialism is a perversion of authority. Anarchy is a perversion of liberty. All these disgust and repulse me as well.

(September 27, 2015 at 11:53 pm)robvalue Wrote: Pyrrho: I've always been seen as an easy target for bullying, yeah I wasn't talking about friends insulting me. People did it all the time when I was at school. I minded my own business but people felt the need to come over and hassle me. At college (16-18) I enjoyed wearing a track suit to college, I found it comfortable. I was the only one who wore this, and for some reason a lot of people continually insulted me about it. They kept telling me to basically copy everyone else, but I refused.

As an adult it's happened less, but occasionally I still get people just randomly saying unpleasant things in the street. I'm way past caring and I just ignore it.

You say that you were seen as an easy target for bullying.  Why?  What made you seem like an easy target for bullying?  There is nothing in the online videos I have seen of you that would suggest that you would be a particular target for bullies, though I confess to being no expert on what bullies like.

I suppose in my case, I never wanted to express myself with my clothing.  I have mostly worn clothes that are "normal," but comfortable.  I only buy shirts made from natural fibers (and hate cotton/poly blends, which are truly an abomination, though if others want to wear uncomfortable clothes, that is their business).  In college, I sometimes offended casual friends and acquaintances, because I would walk right past them without noticing them, because I was deep in thought.  (People who knew me well knew it was nothing personal about them, but was my way generally.)  They would have to say something to me to get my attention.

But you say that people still say things to you on the street?  Can you make a video of yourself, or have your wife do it, and post it online?  Are you really just a computer simulation, which would explain why your universe is so different from mine?  (I know it is not that I am the one living in a civilized country, because I am not living in a civilized country.  You should have it better than I do; maybe your country is overrated.)

Only very rarely does it happen now, usually either stupid kids or some drunk twat.

I'm more confident than I used to be, I was a bag of nerves when I was younger. The bullies could sense that I think. They knew I'd never do anything back so they were free to shit all over me. But even by the age of about 10 I didn't care what they said anymore. I got on with my thing, and if people didn't like me it was tough.

I've got quite a few videos of myself online, unless you meant one of me getting shouted at? Here's the first Never Ending Story video:

http://youtu.be/nIFhdE4I7jQ

(September 28, 2015 at 12:27 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(September 28, 2015 at 10:59 am)MTL Wrote: The practice of designating the term "pervert" to homosexuality, always kind of puzzled me... So I can't but scoff at anyone who is so unsophisticated and emotionally adolescent as to presume to designate a fellow human "perverse"..simply for the insignificant, negligible triviality of both partners being of the same gender...

What is unsophisticated and immature is looking only to the satisfaction of sensual desires as the source of happiness and emotional fulfillment.

Who says that's their only source of happiness or emotional fulfillment?  Who said that?  I didn't.

Quote:Perversity is the abuse or misdirection of any natural function, physical, emotional or intellectual.
Turning natural desires away from their proper ends is perversion of those desires.

Right, right, Chad...so wearing clothes is a perversion, then.  Taking medicine for sickness is a perversion.
Flying in airplanes is perverse.  Clipping your nails and cutting your hair and shaving your face, are perverse.
Resisting the urge to murder the guy who raped your daughter is perverse.  Driving cars is perverse.

Come on, man.

Are you opposed to birth control, too?

You talk about "natural functions" but yet in our world people constantly divide things into categories of what is "natural" or "man-made".

If you go by that standard, everything man does could be deemed "unnatural" aside from sleeping, eating, pooping, fucking, breathing, giving birth, and dying.

Many species alter their environments to suit their purposes.

Humans just do it at a far more sophisticated level, that's all
....for a human, cooperating with other humans
to develop plastics and metals and building materials to build a house,
is no different than an ant cooperating with other ants to build an ant-hill.

We only dub man-made alterations to the environment as "unnatural"
because of our self-centric way of looking at the world.

And likewise, because we are more sophisticated creatures, our sexuality is more sophisticated.

This is the issue I've always had with the religious repression of human sexuality...not just homosexuality,
but all sexuality...no sex before marriage, modesty, yadda yadda.

Look, Chad:

I'm Agnostic.  I allow that there may or may not be a God.

But even if God DOES exist,
I think that Religion and God very likely have NOTHING to do with each other,

So my question to you is,
if it someday turns out that God DOES in fact exist,
but has NOTHING to do with your religion,
and your chosen Holy Writ is wrong,

how do you know but what homosexuality is actually PART of God's design,
but in a grander evolutionary scheme?

maybe it's not as simple as saying that
"only men and women should have sex...because that's how you make babies"

...maybe that's a rather hamfisted view of God's Design.

Maybe in obeying Christianity, you're actually offending God.

Maybe in criticizing what YOU think is "natural" or "unnatural" about homosexuality,
you are actually criticizing God's Design, for all you know.

Maybe God will someday look at you, Chad:

 ಠ_ಠ

and ask you why you criticized his design?

and why, when other puny, stupid, fallible humans told you
that a given book was the "Inspired Word of God",
you took THEIR word for it,
instead of using the brain that God, Himself, gave you?


After all, homosexuality has repeatedly been well-documented in MANY other species, besides humans.

Or maybe you're a Creationist?  Maybe you believe the world is only a few thousand years old?

(September 28, 2015 at 9:22 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(September 28, 2015 at 8:40 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I already find the gay lifestyle sick and repulsive. The last thing I need are the compliments of perverts.

Besides they'd be lying. The last thing I am is physically attractive. And I kinda smell too.

Chad I respect your right to have an opinion but please do be prepared to get a lot of flak for this comment. I know you can take it just fine.

He is probably afraid he will give in to his secret urges if a gay man were to express attraction to him.  Seriously.  It has been shown that extreme homophobes often have homosexual desires.  For a start, see:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...234458.htm

People usually get most worked up about things that affect themselves.  And this is another typical example of that general tendency.