(October 8, 2015 at 10:39 am)Losty Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 10:35 am)Crossless1 Wrote: That's because those of us who have them don't talk about them except in select company.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-37005-po...pid1075537

*Sigh*

Yes, we are aware of Bambi's indiscretion. I can't go into details. Suffice it to say that he won't make that mistake again. We "handle" such things with extreme prejudice.

(October 8, 2015 at 10:48 am)Jenny A Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 2:41 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: I'm saying most Christians won't agree with the 'belief only in Jesus for their salvation'. Sorry I wasn't clear, but many sects of Christianity preach a different gospel than the one preached by the bible. They take away from the cross by adding their own works like repenting from their sins (repentance gospel) and being a good disciple of Christ (lordship gospel) which is all pride. The bible states clearly that the only thing to be proud about is what Jesus did and how GOd saved us.

I know many Christians wouldn't agree with you. And they are reading the same Bible though perhaps in a more accurate translation than the King James. Mostly the problem is the Bible is far from clear. Jesus talks in parables which are by there very nature unclear. Frankly, the Gospels in the Bible don't agree. The synoptics aren't too far from each other doctrinally, but the Jesus in John is so far from the Jesus in the synoptics he might as well be on another planet. And Paul's letters are somewhere else again.

But you still aren't getting to my question. If belief in Jesus is all that's necessary for salvation and that's what Jesus says (when he isn't preaching works which he also does) before he is crucified, why is the crucifixion necessary? And why did baptism work before Jesus died?

Most Christians are fake
I can find many contradictions in bible other than the KJV
NIV for example takes out whole verses and changes words like saying hell is separation from God or that hell isn't flaming fire. God is the one who burns people in hell.
the gospel is so clear
any work done by us are like filthy rags to God
it is faith that accounts for righteousness and it is consistent in the old and new testament

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(October 8, 2015 at 10:03 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 2:41 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: I'm saying most Christians won't agree with the 'belief only in Jesus for their salvation'. Sorry I wasn't clear, but many sects of Christianity preach a different gospel than the one preached by the bible. They take away from the cross by adding their own works like repenting from their sins (repentance gospel) and being a good disciple of Christ (lordship gospel) which is all pride. The bible states clearly that the only thing to be proud about is what Jesus did and how GOd saved us.

---

beware of perversions of bibles in modern day retranslations. I believe there is a hidden agenda to change verses to refute biblical doctrines. Read the KJV bible.
Don't be deceived. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Believe on Him alone and you will be saved.

Daniel, we're only talking about the verse from the KJV that you provided. Are you just playing around?

the verse you gave is different from the one I gave. the word difficult

(October 8, 2015 at 10:58 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 10:48 am)Jenny A Wrote: I know many Christians wouldn't agree with you.  And they are reading the same Bible though perhaps in a more accurate translation than the King James.  Mostly the problem is the Bible is far from clear.   Jesus talks in parables which are by there very nature unclear.   Frankly, the Gospels in the Bible don't agree.  The synoptics aren't too far from each other doctrinally, but the Jesus in John is so far from the Jesus in the synoptics he might as well be on another planet.  And Paul's letters are somewhere else again.

But you still aren't getting to my question.  If belief in Jesus is all that's necessary for salvation and that's what Jesus says (when he isn't preaching works which he also does) before he is crucified, why is the crucifixion necessary?  And why did baptism work before Jesus died?

Most Christians are fake
I can find many contradictions in bible other than the KJV
NIV for example takes out whole verses and changes words like saying hell is separation from God or that hell isn't flaming fire. God is the one who burns people in hell.
the gospel is so clear
any work done by us are like filthy rags to God
it is faith that accounts for righteousness and it is consistent in the old and new testament

Numb nuts, you do realize you're using Bible passages to try to proselytize to a group of people for whom the Bible is not a normative or authoritative source, right? In fact, many of us think it's downright silly and embarrassing that there are still adults who buy into this garbage. Persuade me that Yahweh exists and you might have the basis for a real conversation. Barring that, fuck off.

(October 8, 2015 at 2:50 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 2:41 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: beware of perversions of bibles in modern day retranslations. I believe there is a hidden agenda to change verses to refute biblical doctrines. Read the KJV bible.

Dude, seriously?

You're really asserting that "modern day retranslations" are a "hidden agenda", rather than a better understanding of how to translate ancient Greek and Hebrew into English (since we now have found more ancient documents than they had at the start of the 17th century, for the purpose of understanding the idioms and word usage of those writers), but that the translators of the Authorized King James  Version did not?!

Rocket went into admirable detail about the history of the KJV, but sometimes a simple list works too. 

(October 8, 2015 at 11:02 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 10:58 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Most Christians are fake
I can find many contradictions in bible other than the KJV
NIV for example takes out whole verses and changes words like saying hell is separation from God or that hell isn't flaming fire. God is the one who burns people in hell.
the gospel is so clear
any work done by us are like filthy rags to God
it is faith that accounts for righteousness and it is consistent in the old and new testament

Numb nuts, you do realize you're using Bible passages to try to proselytize to a group of people for whom the Bible is not a normative or authoritative source, right? In fact, many of us think it's downright silly and embarrassing that there are still adults who buy into this garbage. Persuade me that Yahweh exists and you might have the basis for a real conversation. Barring that, fuck off.

you think its stupid and I think its the words of eternal life. the conversation is real and if you think its garbage then you shouldn't be offended. I take no offence of Muslims telling me ill go to hell if I don't convert to islam. read a KJV bible and you'll find out

(October 8, 2015 at 11:13 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 11:02 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Numb nuts, you do realize you're using Bible passages to try to proselytize to a group of people for whom the Bible is not a normative or authoritative source, right? In fact, many of us think it's downright silly and embarrassing that there are still adults who buy into this garbage. Persuade me that Yahweh exists and you might have the basis for a real conversation. Barring that, fuck off.

you think its stupid and I think its the words of eternal life. the conversation is real and if you think its garbage then you shouldn't be offended. I take no offence of Muslims telling me ill go to hell if I don't convert to islam. read a KJV bible and you'll find out

I've read the Bible and remain profoundly unimpressed. What's your point?

(October 8, 2015 at 11:09 am)drfuzzy Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 2:50 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Dude, seriously?

You're really asserting that "modern day retranslations" are a "hidden agenda", rather than a better understanding of how to translate ancient Greek and Hebrew into English (since we now have found more ancient documents than they had at the start of the 17th century, for the purpose of understanding the idioms and word usage of those writers), but that the translators of the Authorized King James  Version did not?!

Rocket went into admirable detail about the history of the KJV, but sometimes a simple list works too. 

that's the reason why you reject Christianity?

(October 8, 2015 at 11:13 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: you think its stupid and I think its the words of eternal life. the conversation is real and if you think its garbage then you shouldn't be offended. I take no offence of Muslims telling me ill go to hell if I don't convert to islam. read a KJV bible and you'll find out

Do you have an actual argument? Or is it just "it's true tho!"

And who said anything about being offended? We're just tired of self-righteous people like you thinking you can just take over our own community to preach to us, without any respect for the people you're trampling all over. If we're offended at anything, it's at your behavior, not the ridiculous stories that are causing you to misbehave.

Ok, we think it's stupid and you think it's "the words of eternal life" (whatever that means). One of those views may be correct, while one is - or maybe both are - wrong. How might we set about discovering which is which?

(October 8, 2015 at 11:17 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 8, 2015 at 11:09 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Rocket went into admirable detail about the history of the KJV, but sometimes a simple list works too. 

that's the reason why you reject Christianity?

No, this would be one of literally hundreds of reasons.

Now, with this new found knowledge of the book you live your entire life by, doesn't it make you question it?  At all?