(October 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: "The bible is really clear on salvation. It is not based on how good you are. A lot of people think that they’re pretty good, and that they are going to get to heaven because they’re pretty good but the Bible says, “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” (Romans 3:23) The Bible says, “As it is written there is none righteous, no, not one.” (Romans 3:10) I’m not righteous. You’re not righteous, and if it were our goodness that would get us into heaven, none of us would be going.

The bible even says in Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful and unbelieving, the abominable and murderers and sorcerers and whoremongers and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” I have lied before. Everyone has lied before, so we have all sinned, and we have done things worse than lying. Let’s face it: we all deserve hell.

But the Bible says, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8) Jesus Christ, because he loves us, came to this earth. The bible says he was God manifest in the flesh. God basically took on human form. He lived a sinless life. He did not commit any sin, and of course, they beat him, and spit on him, and nailed him to the cross. The Bible says that when he was on that cross he “himself bare our sins in his own body on the tree.” (1 Peter 2:24) So every sin you have ever done, and every sin I have ever done - it was as if Jesus had done it. He was being punished for our sins. Then they took his body when he had died, and buried it in the tomb, and his soul went down to Hell for three days and three nights (Acts 2:31). Three days later he rose again from the dead. He showed unto the disciples the holes in his hands. The Bible is really clear that Jesus did die for everybody. It says that he died “not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). But there is something that we must do to be saved. The bible has that question in Acts 16, “What must I do to be saved? And they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” That is all. He did NOT say, “Join a church, and you’ll be saved. Get baptized, and you’ll be saved. Live a good life, and you’ll be saved. Repent of all your sins, and you’ll be saved, NO. He said “believe.”

Even the most famous verse in the whole Bible, whose reference is written on the bottom of the cup at “In and Out Burger.” It’s so famous. Everybody’s heard of it: John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.” And everlasting means everlasting. It means forever, and Jesus said, “I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10:28) The Bible says in John 6:47, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” So if you believe on Jesus Christ, the Bible says you have everlasting life. You are going to live forever. You can’t lose your salvation. It’s eternal, it’s everlasting. Once you’re saved, once you believe on him, you’re saved forever, and no matter what, you can never lose your salvation.

Even if I were to go out and commit some awful sin, God will punish me for it on this earth. If I went out and killed somebody today, God would make sure that I got punished, I’m going to prison, or far worse, or the death penalty. However this world punishes me, and God is going to make sure I get punished even more, but I’m not going to Hell. There is nothing I can do to go to hell because I’m saved, and if I went to hell, then God lied. Because he promised that whoever believeth has everlasting life, and he said, “Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.” That is why there are a lot of examples of people in the Bible who did some really bad things, yet they made it to Heaven. How? Because they were so good? NO, it’s because they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Their sins are forgiven. Other people who may have lived a better life in the world’s eyes, or maybe they really even lived a better life, if they don’t believe in Christ, they are going to have to go to hell to be punished for their sins.

Let me just close on this one thought: one thing that I wanted to be sure and bring up today is that there was a question that was asked to Jesus by one of his disciples, and that question was this: are there few that be saved? That’s a good question, right? Are most people saved? Or is it few that are saved? Who here thinks that most people are going to heaven - that most people in this world are going to heaven? Guess what the answer was: he said, in Matthew 7, “Enter ye in at the strait gate because wide is the gate and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14) Then he went on to say this: “Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you, depart from me ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23)

First of all, the majority of this world doesn’t even claim to believe in Jesus. Thankfully the majority of this classroom claims to believe in Jesus, but the majority of the world does not claim to believe in Jesus. But God warned that even amongst those who claim to believe in Jesus, even among those that call him Lord, many will be saying to him, “We did all these wonderful works! Why aren’t we saved!” He is going to say, “Depart from me, I never knew you.” That is because salvation is not by works, and if you are trusting your own works to save you, if you think you’re going to heaven because you’ve been baptized, if you think, “Well, I think you have to live a good life, I think you have to keep the commandments to be saved, I think you have to go to church, I think you have to turn from your sins…” If you are trusting in your works, Jesus is going to say to you one day, “Depart from me, I never knew you.”

You must have all your faith in what he did. You must put your faith in what Jesus did on the cross when he died for you, was buried, and rose again. That’s your ticket into heaven. If you’re trusting other things, and you say, “Well, I’m going to heaven because I’m such a good Christian, and I do all these wonderful things.” He is going to say, “Depart from me.” Notice what he said, “Depart from me, I NEVER knew you.” He didn’t say, “I used to know you.” Once he knows you… remember I mentioned this earlier: it’s everlasting its eternal. Once he knows you, you are saved forever. He is going to say, “Depart from me, I never knew you,” because if you go to Hell, it is because he never knew you. Because once he knows you, he knows you. Just as my children will always be my children. When you’re born again, when you’re his child, you’ll always be his child. You may be the black sheep of the family. You may be somebody who gets disciplined by God heavily on this earth. You can screw up your life down here, but you can’t screw up salvation. Once you are saved, it is a done deal. That is the main thing I wanted to present to you about the end times, and we do have just a few minutes for questions about either salvation or about the end times."

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I thought this was a well put together explanation.

You know,I like this dude.

(October 10, 2015 at 6:09 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 10, 2015 at 5:04 am)Evie Wrote: I love a joke my brother made in response to "Jesus saves."

He said "Oh I usually just use Ctrl + S".

My favorite has always been:

JESUS SAVES!

(Everyone else takes 2d6 damage.)

Jesus saves...

Rooney scores on the rebound.

Jesus saves.
Moses invests.
But only Buddha pays dividends.

Boru.

(October 9, 2015 at 11:15 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(October 9, 2015 at 9:12 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: you don't have to care either. I'm just saying.

 You are clearly wasting your time if you think you can "save" us. 

We do not believe what's in the bible to be true at all.

Speak for yourself

I think that's the idea. You should try it sometime.

(October 10, 2015 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Just one point, as there's too much rubbish to hit point-by-point:

Quote:Even the most famous verse in the whole Bible, whose reference is written on the bottom of the cup at “In and Out Burger.” It’s so famous. Everybody’s heard of it: John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Firstly, I'm not sure that being printed on the bottom of a cup at 'In and Out Burger' is a particularly strong argument in favour of your interpretation of this verse.

Secondly, this is the most notorious bit in the Bible. Here's what it's really saying: 'For God so despised intellectual honesty, freedom and free thought that he has declared that anyone who does not love Jesus to the exclusion of all else is doomed to eternal misery and torture for the unthinkable crime of having the temerity to use the critical reasoning skills that God has provided.'

Any Christian who thinks John 3:16 is an expression of God's love for humanity should be ashamed of themselves.

Boru

What you're saying is that you hate God?

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(October 10, 2015 at 7:05 am)I_am_not_mafia Wrote:

(October 9, 2015 at 2:05 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: "The bible is really clear on salvation.

The bible even says in ...

But the Bible says ...

The bible says he was  ...

The Bible says that ...

The Bible is really clear that ...

The bible has that question in ...

Even the most famous verse in the whole Bible ...

The Bible says in ...

Why should we believe what the Bible says?

Why should we believe our history books? You need to make a grown up decision and ask yourself seriously whether it is fable or true. If you think it's a pile of heaping dung, then have a good day. If you don't and you believe on Jesus, then awesome! May God bless you all the days of your life.

(October 10, 2015 at 9:21 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote:

(October 10, 2015 at 7:22 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Just one point, as there's too much rubbish to hit point-by-point:


Firstly, I'm not sure that being printed on the bottom of a cup at 'In and Out Burger' is a particularly strong argument in favour of your interpretation of this verse.

Secondly, this is the most notorious bit in the Bible.  Here's what it's really saying:  'For God so despised intellectual honesty, freedom and free thought that he has declared that anyone who does not love Jesus to the exclusion of all else is doomed to eternal misery and torture for the unthinkable crime of having the temerity to use the critical reasoning skills that God has provided.'

Any Christian who thinks John 3:16 is an expression of God's love for humanity should be ashamed of themselves.

Boru

What you're saying is that you hate God?

---

(October 10, 2015 at 7:05 am)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: Why should we believe what the Bible says?

Why should we believe our history books? You need to make a grown up decision and ask yourself seriously whether it is fable or true. If you think it's a pile of heaping dung, then have a good day. If you don't and you believe on Jesus, then awesome! May God bless you all the days of your life.

Fuck, man, how dense can you be?

We cannot hate God, since no gods are real. We don't hate Jehovah any more than you hate Ganesha or Shiva or Thor.

On the other hand, we can be astounded at how barbaric and brutal your descriptions of this fictional character (around whom you have chosen to center your life and ideologies) are. 

If you told me you worshiped Darth Vader, I'd question why you followed a guy who liked to Force-choke people who disagreed with him.

And you would reply "Why do you hate Vader?" And I would stare at you like your brain came out of your nose.

We shouldn't believe our history books. We should look at what each book has to say, compare it to other books (and primary literature, if we see discrepancies between the versions told in the history books), and form an idea of what history really is based on how strong the case is of each thing we in society think we know about history. The same is true of any books.

And if a person told me they had read only one history book, and then decided that was the only  history book worth reading, I'd stare at them like their brains came out of their nose.

Quote:What you're saying is that you hate God?

No, you obtuse dimwit. I'm saying that, according to the words of your very own book, God hates humanity. Think about it (thinking isn't scary, just approach it slowly): John 3:16 has God condemning the majority of humanity to an eternity of torment. I don't believe that Jesus is God, full stop. I came to this conclusion by the exercise of reason. You would have God punishing me for the use of one of the gifts your lot claim he provided.

Additionally, a rejection of God is an exercise of free will. Your kind are always prattling on (and I do mean 'always') about how God has granted us free will. Well, what is the point of free will if God has created an out-of-proportion punishment for its use?

Boru

(October 10, 2015 at 9:33 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 10, 2015 at 9:21 am)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: What you're saying is that you hate God?

---

Why should we believe our history books? You need to make a grown up decision and ask yourself seriously whether it is fable or true. If you think it's a pile of heaping dung, then have a good day. If you don't and you believe on Jesus, then awesome! May God bless you all the days of your life.

Fuck, man, how dense can you be?

We cannot hate God, since no gods are real. We don't hate Jehovah any more than you hate Ganesha or Shiva or Thor.

On the other hand, we can be astounded at how barbaric and brutal your descriptions of this fictional character (around whom you have chosen to center your life and ideologies) are. 

If you told me you worshiped Darth Vader, I'd question why you followed a guy who liked to Force-choke people who disagreed with him.

And you would reply "Why do you hate Vader?" And I would stare at you like your brain came out of your nose.

We shouldn't believe our history books. We should look at what each book has to say, compare it to other books (and primary literature, if we see discrepancies between the versions told in the history books), and form an idea of what history really is based on how strong the case is of each thing we in society think we know about history. The same is true of any books.

And if a person told me they had read only one history book, and then decided that was the only  history book worth reading, I'd stare at them like their brains came out of their nose.

oh ok so you could care less about what I have to say about my beliefs. I understand now.

The bible is 66 books put together btw, not just one.

(October 9, 2015 at 3:13 pm)Evie Wrote: I smell a ban hammer around the corner.

Wait a minute... how did you and Losty get the same avvy? The only question I have for the OP is why aren't you banned yet? Proselytizing and Pasta should be a two-step boogie out the door.