I think the white men dominating the atheist movement (organized atheism) is not an exclusive issue to atheism but it's also the same phenomenon we observe in politics, jobs, etc - It's not like atheism is more white male than Engineering, politics or something like that (or native western religions like Christianity). I would argue that more than everything the atheist movement in itself is overrated - New Atheism shows us a view that happens to be told mostly by white men, but there are atheist thinkers debunking the bible and denying the existence of god since a long time ago. This view that the four horsemen are amazing atheists is, in my opinion, naive and needs further consideration - Specially considering that some atheists like myself don't feel very represented by their positions (though I recognize some good points being made).

Personally, when it comes to representation and all of those issues I'm a proponent of proportionality and fairness. Since there is no scientific evidence that something like gender, race and so on drastically affects your ability, it would be expected that the number of people in positions of power directly (or closely) correlates with the demographics. If you have 10% of black citizens, you should try to achieve a fair number of representatives for them. If you have 50% women you should do the same - At the least because otherwise women are dependent forever on the protection of men for getting jobs, military, politics + laws, justice, etc. I don't think it is possible to achieve, even for brief moments, completely proportionate representation, but it is possible to pursue the goal - When there is a significant unjustified difference that isn't corroborated by science, there is no reason to think that it's a product of chance or choice - There is no such thing as free will.

That a false premise

(January 1, 2015 at 11:47 pm)ketameankitty Wrote: YouTube can, and has, done wonders for the atheist community.  It gave free thinkers a place to post videos to help educate the world on the likes of science and dangers of religion.  It was YouTubers like CultOfDusty, who I originally subscribed to for his political videos, that helped me come to my senses and denounce my former religion.

But over the past year or so, there's been a trend among popular atheist YouTubers: anti-feminism.

I will admit right now that there are many extreme feminists who I don't agree with.  In fact, a lot of the things "anti-feminists" critique, I agree with.  But not to the extent that I would ever title myself as an anti-feminist.  No, I am not against the movement that fights the Republicans' attempts to limit my reproductive rights, or the movement that points out double standards that still exist (for women and men).  I am not against the movement that is working to make gender identification and sexuality and orientation normal things.  Why any forward-thinking, self-identifying atheist would be against this movement is beyond me.

I understand these anti-feminists usually support the efforts of feminists in the past, and even the present.  After all, TheAmazingAtheist paints his fingernails...if it wasn't for modern feminism, that would be unacceptable.  I know that these anti-feminists just get their panties in a knot when they watch videos by extremists like Anita Sarkeesian, you know, that woman that no one likes, save for her following of maybe...40,000 people?  Maybe?  If that?

Point being, all these extreme feminists are a joke.  They don't have power in politics.  They have a minimal influence over culture and the population.  The only people they're reaching are misandrous cat ladies who would be just as misandrous and just as cat lady with or without a weekly subscription to FemFreq.

But regardless, we all have our opinions and things we're passionate about.  I can understand why people, including atheist YouTubers, would want to respond to some of the ridiculous things the extreme feminists spew.  But like...why respond to that meaningless bullshit every week?  If these extreme feminists are gaining any momentum at all, it's because the anti-feminists are guiding them to their videos!

Tj, TheAmazingAtheist, arguably has the largest following of his peers.  That said, he has some considerable power over people, and probably much more so than the big, mean, scary Anita Sarkeesian!  Why is he, and so many other YouTubers, wasting that power on beating a dead horse again on a weekly basis?

I get it.  It's the Internet and people can do what they want.  If making videos mocking these feminists is fun for them, they can do it!  But should they?

As an anti-religion atheist, I don't think so.

If atheists want to gain acceptance, see religious laws get removed, and someday live in a world where dogma doesn't exist, we need power.  And power comes in number.

Feminists (not the extremists) are a heftily sized group of people that atheists should be working to attract, not piss off.  A lot of feminists are areligious because they know that many gender roles and oppression stem from the Bible and Qu'ran and other pieces of religious paraphernalia.  I formerly identified more as a feminist until I "went back to being" an atheist.  I see religion as the root of several problems in the world, including the problems feminists fight.  While I am still a feminist, I tend to talk and get more passionate about the atheists' cause because I think it more or less encompasses all of my beliefs, so to speak.  What I'm trying to say is, there are a lot of women out there, who call themselves feminist, that we as atheists should try to "convert".

When even female atheist YouTubers like JaclynGlenn label themselves "anti-feminist", it deters a lot of queer people, trans people, and women in general.  How are these people supposed to feel welcome in the atheist community when it's largely composed of men and some women--men and women who say they are against feminism?!

I unsubscribed from TheAmazingAtheist and seldom tune in to JaclynGlenn because I got tired of seeing their anti-feminist videos so often.  And they're not the only ones.

Maybe I'm just being the kind of overly-sensitive bitch that Tj and Jaclyn rant and rave about, but I just honestly think their efforts could be put to better use making more videos criticizing the religious bigots in politics and media instead of a handful of ladies crying about cat calls.

I know this post will probably go unread or unanswered both because I'm new, and because I hold a very unpopular opinion.  I just have been wanting to get this off my chest for a long time, and I didn't really have a place for it until now.  But I'd love to further discus!

I'm all for necromancy but wtf is the point in quoting the OP and not saying anything?

Alot of people now consider themseleves "Anti-feminist" because how culty it has become and it is an illiberal, sexist ideology. Most feminists want to control language and want to go on witch hunts, condeming everything as sexist at every turn. Most rational people are not exactly against feminism, they are against the third wave of feminism which is indeed very poisonous. Just look at the whole Atheism Plus thing and how people are getting labled as Rapists, and Rape apologists. It is exactly like McCarthyism. I am all for equal rights for all of the sexes but what i am not for is putting one sex on a pedestal. This is what feminism attempts to do. The claims that women are opressed in the first world are laugable at best and have been debunked numerous times. Feminists like Zoe quinn and Anita sarkessian go the fucking U.N because they are being criticized, called liars and being told "they suck" while totally ignoring women who are actually opressed In the middle east and other places in the world. Women are stoned, beaten, treated like cattle, forced to wear bee keeper suits, being forced to marry someone three times there age, raped without justice, and have there clitoris cut off at younger ages. It completly asinine and quite franlky retarted. I hope i cleared everything up and i would be happy to continue the discussion.

(October 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm)VanteBriggs Wrote: Alot of people now consider themseleves "Anti-feminist" because how culty it has become and it is an illiberal, sexist ideology. Most feminists want to control language and want to go on witch hunts, condeming everything as sexist at every turn.  Most rational people are not exactly against feminism, they are against the third wave of feminism which is indeed very poisonous. Just look at the whole Atheism Plus thing and how people are getting labled as Rapists, and Rape apologists. It is exactly like McCarthyism. I am all for equal rights for all of the sexes but what i am not for is putting one sex on a pedestal. This is what feminism attempts to do. The claims that women are opressed in the first world are laugable at best and have been debunked numerous times. Feminists like Zoe quinn and Anita sarkessian go the fucking U.N because they are being criticized, called liars and being told "they suck" while totally ignoring women who are actually opressed In the middle east and other places in the world. Women are stoned, beaten, treated like cattle, forced to wear bee keeper suits, being forced to marry someone three times there age, raped without justice, and have there clitoris cut off at younger ages. It completly asinine and quite franlky retarted. I hope i cleared everything up and i would be happy to continue the discussion.

"If someone has it worse, your problems cease to exist."

(October 20, 2015 at 3:24 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm)VanteBriggs Wrote: Alot of people now consider themseleves "Anti-feminist" because how culty it has become and it is an illiberal, sexist ideology. Most feminists want to control language and want to go on witch hunts, condeming everything as sexist at every turn.  Most rational people are not exactly against feminism, they are against the third wave of feminism which is indeed very poisonous. Just look at the whole Atheism Plus thing and how people are getting labled as Rapists, and Rape apologists. It is exactly like McCarthyism. I am all for equal rights for all of the sexes but what i am not for is putting one sex on a pedestal. This is what feminism attempts to do. The claims that women are opressed in the first world are laugable at best and have been debunked numerous times. Feminists like Zoe quinn and Anita sarkessian go the fucking U.N because they are being criticized, called liars and being told "they suck" while totally ignoring women who are actually opressed In the middle east and other places in the world. Women are stoned, beaten, treated like cattle, forced to wear bee keeper suits, being forced to marry someone three times there age, raped without justice, and have there clitoris cut off at younger ages. It completly asinine and quite franlky retarted. I hope i cleared everything up and i would be happy to continue the discussion.

"If someone has it worse, your problems cease to exist."  

via Imgflip Meme Maker

"If someone has it worse, your problems cease to exist." That is not what i said at all. I am not denying that women are not raped or treated badly in first world countries, I am was just making the point that these feminists (or at least the once i have been exposed to) are more interested in a war on language and being polictically correct than talking about ACTUAL opression of women. And for the record, men are actually raped far more than women. Why isn't anyone talking about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender http://www.amren.com/news/2013/10/more-m...ts-reveal/

Well, I personally can't stand the feminists who freak out over a shirt. There was a person who landed a probe on a comet that would land huge advancements in scientific research, and yet these people were offended because he wore a shirt with a woman depicted scantily clad. That really upset me. Seeing that poor man in tears over something so pathetic and trivial made me angry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/...shirt.html

Another thing that averts me from the feminist label is that if I have a dissenting opinion, I get labeled a mysogynist woman hater by some feminists.

I'm glad that not all feminists are like that, and I give kudos to the feminists who speak out against these feminazis. But feminazis have officially killed feminism for me.