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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 10:58 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 20, 2015 at 10:36 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:27 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: why are you sunnis and shiites divided in the first place ? didnt the Quran speak against doing that ?
Al Imran verse 103 : And hold fast all together by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you) and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love so that by His grace ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make his signs clear to you: that ye may be guided.
well another religious person throwing their own Bible out the window and doing whatever they want ... go get in line its over there -------->
Why don't you read the whole Surah to understand what it means to hold on to the rope of God and not be divided. For example, if you lived during Yahya, would you stick to the majority of people who don't follow him or would you stick to the community that follows him as he is part of the path of submission to God?
It's the same with divinely appointed leaders after, sticking to them is holding on to the rope of God (the book and divine guides). The Quran emphasizes majority of the people of book were disgraced except through the a rope from God and rope from humans.
The Quran emphasizes in context of emphasizing of the family of Ibrahim, their divine authority, and the eternal consequences of turning away from it, to obey God and to obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from us.
It's clear enough for sincere people wanting to know the truth. People wanting to stick to their religion they are born with, that's a whole different story.
did Prophet Muhammad himself select this " divinely appointed leader " ? if not how can you say that he is divinely appointed unless Muhammad chose him ? it is the choice and interpretation of humans who are not Prophets right just some religious person so how should they know what God wants ?
did Prophet Muhammad himself say that this is an issue - that if not agreed upon - should be fought over? or did you Muslims decide that on your own ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:01 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:01 pm by Blondie.
Edit Reason: Forgot a word
)
(October 20, 2015 at 10:30 pm)Evie Wrote: I'll try to figure out how to prove to you that I don't believe in God JK.... right after I prove to you that I haven't believed in Santa Claus since I was a small child.
I haven't worked out how to prove I don't believe in Santa Claus yet... when I work that one out I'll give you proof of my atheism 
I know we got off on the wrong foot. I think I can help you out on the Santa Claus one. Just sit out multiple cameras throughout the house and record it on Christmas eve and see if a drunk strange man shows up who supposedly comes down the the chimney and wonders around your house while you are sleeping with your pistol ready to go. Git-R-Done.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm
Just to kinda even things over there is no proof for a biblical god(s) no one knows if there really is truly a god or not.
Even if you worship a god in a fictional book and given that you are playing a game of ethereal Russian roulette.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 10:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote: If there was proof, there would be no atheists. It's not our fault that what we're offered, again and again, isn't the 'proof' it's purported to be. This is all without going into the difference between proof and evidence, of course.
A person can argue if there was proof x religion was wrong, no people would follow x religion. Obviously that you acknowledge is false. Therefore your argument would have to be special pleading.
I'm not talking about religions, I was referring to evidence for gods. No Dolphinetics, please.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 10:58 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:36 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Why don't you read the whole Surah to understand what it means to hold on to the rope of God and not be divided. For example, if you lived during Yahya, would you stick to the majority of people who don't follow him or would you stick to the community that follows him as he is part of the path of submission to God?
It's the same with divinely appointed leaders after, sticking to them is holding on to the rope of God (the book and divine guides). The Quran emphasizes majority of the people of book were disgraced except through the a rope from God and rope from humans.
The Quran emphasizes in context of emphasizing of the family of Ibrahim, their divine authority, and the eternal consequences of turning away from it, to obey God and to obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from us.
It's clear enough for sincere people wanting to know the truth. People wanting to stick to their religion they are born with, that's a whole different story.
did Prophet Muhammad himself select this " divinely appointed leader " ? if not how can you say that he is divinely appointed unless Muhammad chose him ? it is the choice and interpretation of humans who are not Prophets right just some religious person so how should they know what God wants ?
God tested infinite souls before bringing them into one of the worlds. Those who were of utmost sincerity to God were chosen, those who were exalted in intention, were chosen and trusted.
He chosen the best of the best to seal his religion with. It's up to God to chose who submitting to would be submitting to God himself, not the people. Even Moses asks God to appoint his brother Harun as a vizier with him, and helper, and doesn't chose on his own. Rather God must approve and choose.
Those who possess the authority from us are those who God vested his authority to who and who he manifests with clear proofs of their designation.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 11:01 pm)Blondie Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:30 pm)Evie Wrote: I'll try to figure out how to prove to you that I don't believe in God JK.... right after I prove to you that I haven't believed in Santa Claus since I was a small child.
I haven't worked out how to prove I don't believe in Santa Claus yet... when I work that one out I'll give you proof of my atheism
I know we got off on the wrong foot. I think I can help you out on the Santa Claus one. Just sit out multiple cameras throughout the house and record it on Christmas eve and see if a drunk strange man shows up who supposedly comes down the the chimney and wonders around your house while you are sleeping with your pistol ready to go. Git-R-Done.
Blasphemer! How dare you attempt to deny the truth of the Holy Santa with your skeptical testing!!
(You really did read that CSICOP website I sent you to, didn't you?)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:08 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:09 pm by Mystic.)
(October 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: A person can argue if there was proof x religion was wrong, no people would follow x religion. Obviously that you acknowledge is false. Therefore your argument would have to be special pleading.
I'm not talking about religions, I was referring to evidence for gods. No Dolphinetics, please.
It doesn't matter what you are talking about, your argument assumes if there is proof of God or exactly what type of God he is, humanity would all believe in that God and there would be no Atheists. But for such structure of an argument to be true, humanity needs to be sincere towards proofs that they are honest enough to accept them when presented with such proofs. The fact that humanity follows false religions even though there is proofs many of them are false, suggests, this is not the case. So your argument would be special pleading regardless if you are talking about religions or not.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:14 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm by Blondie.
Edit Reason: Misspelling
)
(October 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 11:01 pm)Blondie Wrote: I know we got off on the wrong foot. I think I can help you out on the Santa Claus one. Just sit out multiple cameras throughout the house and record it on Christmas eve and see if a drunk strange man shows up who supposedly comes down the the chimney and wonders around your house while you are sleeping with your pistol ready to go. Git-R-Done.
Blasphemer! How dare you attempt to deny the truth of the Holy Santa with your skeptical testing!!
(You really did read that CSICOP website I sent you to, didn't you?)
Yes. Still working through alot of the information as I have alot to learn since I been out of science for some time.
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 20, 2015 at 10:58 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: did Prophet Muhammad himself select this " divinely appointed leader " ? if not how can you say that he is divinely appointed unless Muhammad chose him ? it is the choice and interpretation of humans who are not Prophets right just some religious person so how should they know what God wants ?
God tested infinite souls before bringing them into one of the worlds. Those who were of utmost sincerity to God were chosen, those who were exalted in intention, were chosen and trusted.
He chosen the best of the best to seal his religion with. It's up to God to chose who submitting to would be submitting to God himself, not the people. Even Moses asks God to appoint his brother Harun as a vizier with him, and helper, and doesn't chose on his own. Rather God must approve and choose.
Those who possess the authority from us are those who God vested his authority to who and who he manifests with clear proofs of their designation.
ok but what im asking is how do you humans know who exactly God has chosen to lead your religion ? what human being among you arrogantly claims to know who God has chosen and puts himself above Prophet Muhammed who did not even know ?
and you did not answer my above question :
did Prophet Muhammad himself say that this is an issue - that if not agreed upon - should be fought over? or did you Muslims decide that on your own ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Proof for being an atheist
October 20, 2015 at 11:20 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 11:23 pm by Mystic.)
The Quran designates the family of Mohammad (42:23/25:57) as the path towards God, in which attachment and love to them leads straight to God.
Exactly who the family of Mohammad is to be known through hadiths.
There is only one set of hadiths naming all his successors - and we can know - that being commanded to obey them (4:59), they would be named and designated by God and his Prophet. As such the hadiths naming the 12 Imams and numbering them stand as a proof for all humans who believe in the Quran.
No one is saying we should fight over this issue:
"And if a party of you believe and another party don't believe then wait patiently till God judges between us with truth and God is the best of judges".-Quran
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