So Thanksgiving will be here in 30 days. I have food. I have clothes. I have a place to live. I have my health, such as it is. I have my mind, such as it is. Even if I were a believer, give me one good reason why I should thank god for there things.

My problem with thanking god for the good things in my life is that there are people who don't have these things and the Christian answer to the children starving in India is not satisfying. I say this because if it's god providing my food then it's also god who's not providing food for the peole who are starving. Think of a father who has ten children but only feeds two of them and expects those two to be thankful even while they watch their siblings starve.

The Christian answer to this is to just be thankful and not worry about the people who god chose to not provide the basic necessities of life. I have a problem with that because I was taught as a Christian that I'm supposed to have love and compassion towards others. Now if it's god who told me to be compassionate, how can this same god turn around and tell me to be indifferent?

To that the Church tells me that if there were no starving people then we wouldn't have any opportunity to feel compassion. Don't even bother to come in here with that kind of bull shit. You have to have a really twisted mind to be satisfied with that. Either a twisted mind or one that has been programmed not to think to deeply about an all powerful god ruling over a world such as ours.

If you were in a concentration camp where everyone was dying of starvation, and suddenly the passing Fuhrer tossed a half eaten bread towards you, would you thank him and grab it, or would you rather starve?

In a situation like that—okay lets hypothesize that the bread isn't poison. I'd eat it but I would not thank him. Why would I reduce myself to the level of the dog a person like that would want to see me act like by groveling before him?

I find it interesting that you compare god to a Nazi in a concentration camp. Is this also the best answer the Christians can give, a hypothetical dichotomy that doesn't consider all possible parameters?

The thing is, from my own experiences, theists are not really thanking out of love but fear. The thought process seems to be that they are the favoured ones and thus feel the need to suck up or lose those favours. To me the situation seems quite similar to a dictatorship.

Oh, exactly, Rhonda!!

For centuries, it has even seemed that Christians believed that god "took care of them" BECAUSE they believed and prayed and worshiped properly.   It was only proper to thank god for food and shelter and whatever else at every meal - you had to show your gratitude, you know, just in case the big guy in the sky would start feeling unappreciated.  And the "clean your plate and be grateful for it, because there are starving kids in Africa" line was almost a joke.

Well, what ABOUT the starving kids in Africa?  And many of them are believers too (thanks to many thousands of sleazy missionaries.  They pray.  Why are they starving?  Why does god give US food and not them?  And maybe the more important question is, why will millions of Xtians thank god for what they have on Thanksgiving, but never even consider searching out the people in need who live only a few blocks away?  (And don't give me the old line about tithing.  Putting money in the church basket is easy, and it's like paying money to go to a movie each week.)  Why would someone who claims to follow the teachings of Jesus not be driven to help the less fortunate? 

There is SO much of Xtianity that strikes me as egotistical.  "I have this powerful deity who is my own special friend and takes care of me - thank you God!!!"  but then "oh, don't give money to that beggar, he'll just spend it on booze", or "don't think about those kids over there who won't have Thanksgiving - they have a single Mother and she's a welfare queen".   AUGH!!!!!   

Ok, so modern day Thanksgiving was proclaimed by Abraham Lincoln in an 1863 proclamation says that it is:

"…announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations are blessed whose God is the Lord… But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, by the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own… It has seemed to me fit and proper that God should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged, as with one heart and one voice, by the whole American people…"

My family and I have a modest meal on Wednesday of thanksgiving week and we spend Thanksgiving day and Friday serving meals at food shelters in Detroit. We have time to give to those less fortunate than us and it is important to me to teach my kids that there are those in this world that do not have things as nice as we do and we can help them. My kids LOVE working at the Gleaners food bank because the boxes they prepare are geared for kids their own age, so its special to them knowing they are helping other kids out.

I agree that the hypocrisy of a great deal of religious folks is being thankful and a bit egotistical with what we have while forgetting the less fortunate. I believe teaching my kids to be thankful does not mean saying a prayer and gorging on food and playing games but showing to them those that are less fortunate and being moved to do something about it. In that way we humble ourselves and realize how good we have it and those that are less fortunate can be blessed by our willingness to help them and be thankful as well.

(October 22, 2015 at 1:56 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Oh, exactly, Rhonda!!

For centuries, it has even seemed that Christians believed that god "took care of them" BECAUSE they believed and prayed and worshiped properly.   It was only proper to thank god for food and shelter and whatever else at every meal - you had to show your gratitude, you know, just in case the big guy in the sky would start feeling unappreciated.  And the "clean your plate and be grateful for it, because there are starving kids in Africa" line was almost a joke.

Well, what ABOUT the starving kids in Africa?  And many of them are believers too (thanks to many thousands of sleazy missionaries.  They pray.  Why are they starving?  Why does god give US food and not them?  And maybe the more important question is, why will millions of Xtians thank god for what they have on Thanksgiving, but never even consider searching out the people in need who live only a few blocks away?  (And don't give me the old line about tithing.  Putting money in the church basket is easy, and it's like paying money to go to a movie each week.)  Why would someone who claims to follow the teachings of Jesus not be driven to help the less fortunate? 

There is SO much of Xtianity that strikes me as egotistical.  "I have this powerful deity who is my own special friend and takes care of me - thank you God!!!"  but then "oh, don't give money to that beggar, he'll just spend it on booze", or "don't think about those kids over there who won't have Thanksgiving - they have a single Mother and she's a welfare queen".   AUGH!!!!!   

Well Jesus himself did not feed the hungry. To show his power he turned two fishes and a loaf of bread into enough food to feed 5,000 people who otherwise would have gone to town to buy their own food. As for the less fortunate, he says the poor you have with you always. Blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the dirt.

(October 22, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: So Thanksgiving will be here in 30 days. I have food. I have clothes. I have a place to live. I have my health, such as it is. I have my mind, such as it is.  Even if I were a believer, give me one good reason why I should thank god for there things.

Uh...becuase you wouldn't have any of those good things without god.

Quote:My problem with thanking god for the good things in my life is that there are people who don't have these things and the Christian answer to the children starving in India is not satisfying. I say this because if it's god providing my food then it's also god who's not providing food for the peole who are starving. Think of a father who has ten children but only feeds two of them and expects those two to be thankful even  while they watch their siblings starve.

If you cared that much about starving people you'd be doing something about it instead of posting on this forum.

Quote:The Christian answer to this is to just be thankful and not worry about the people who god chose to not provide the basic necessities of life. I have a problem with that because I was taught as a Christian that I'm supposed to have love and compassion towards others. Now if it's god who told me to be compassionate, how can this same god turn around and tell me to be indifferent?  

God didn't tell you to be indifferent. By all means feels free to devote your life to reducing the suffering in others.

Quote:To that the Church tells me that if there were no starving people then we wouldn't have any opportunity to feel compassion. Don't even bother to come in here with that kind of bull shit. You have to have a really twisted mind to be satisfied with that. Either a twisted mind or one that has been programmed not to think to deeply about an all powerful god ruling over a world such as ours.

How twisted is it to use the suffering of people you don't really give a shit about to make an argument against a being that you don't believe exists?

I can only speak for my community but the xtians here feed thousands over the thanksgiving and xmas holiday season and not just through the church. So do the non xtians. The problem is that after the holidays are over the giving stops. Money, food, clothing, it all seems to be forgotten when the season is done. But that doesn't stop the need. Our shelters stay packed until at least April. By that time the banks (food, cloths......) are bare bones.

Giving around the holidays is nice. Giving the year round is better. Giving thanks to a fairy tale is stupid! Not giving when you have the means is reprehensible!

I was always told we should be thanking him every day for the fact that he put everything in motion, as well as some people believing people get pregnant because god wants them to get pregnant. Thus I'm alive more because god wanted it to happen, not so much that my parents had sex.

I started questioning this back when I heard the story about the mother hen making food for her chicks, and asking the neighbors for help. They wouldn't help make the food, but they still wanted to eat some of it. People work to make food, and ship it to stores, so people like me can buy it, but we're supposed to than Jesus for the fact that we're able to eat.

Even if he did get the world started, we're the ones who have to work to survive. Unless I see manna falling from heaven, I'd rather thank other people for my food. I thanks the farmer for my bread and vegetables, the rancher for my chicken, the truckers for bringing the food to the store, and the people running the store for my food. They thank my for my money.