Have you ever seen the movie He's Just Not That Into You?

(November 20, 2015 at 10:44 pm)MentalGiant Wrote:

(November 20, 2015 at 10:33 pm)Losty Wrote: So....actual medical practice then?

Naturopathic medicine and homeopathic remedies are actual medical practices too, as are certain practices like acupuncture. It's not that western medicine doesn't have it's place or provide benefit to some people, but it is amusing how people such as yourself completely discredit anything short of getting hacked up and filling yourself with chemicals as "not legitimate medical practice". Why do people assume all non-westernized medical practices involve some kind of rubbing crystals under your armpits while humming under the full moon kind of nonsense?

Just want to clarify that when you say 'some', you actually mean billions of people all over the planet?

I mean, antibiotics have saved more than just a few people I would have thought (as an example). It's also not true to say that 'western medicine' (??? Not a real term) is focuses entirely on utilising drugs as a treatment. You sound like you might be from the US, but remember in most of Europe we have subsidised medical institutions, so the fewer drugs used the more money they have. It has been standard practice in the NHS for decades to prescribe healthy living in primacy to drugs where possible. If the evidence supports that a good diet will help with a particular ailment then that's what you'll get.

I mean, I'm a T1 diabetic. Without the field of endocrinology i'd be totally fucked. What 'alternative' is there out there for me? Millions of lives have been saved as a result of some bizarre experiments in Victorian times and the well oiled pharmaceutical machine of synthesising insulin.

Of course, no amount of 'healthy living' is going to cure that tumour stuck in your Lung. For that, I guess western medicine rides into the rescue again.

Back at the start of 2010, before things went to shit, my Sam and I took part in the national "Homeopathy overdose" demonstration, to raise awareness that Boots, a respected highstreet pharmacy chain, was selling this shit as genuine medication. Along with thousands of others up and down the country, Sam and I swallowed an entire container of one preparation or another - I forget what mine was, atropine I think - at 10:23 am precisely. Anyone know the significance of that number?

Not only am I still here, none of us even broke into a sweat. The only thing homeopathic 'medicine' cures is thirst.

In case it isn't obvious, anti-anxiety (or depression) medication isn't generally expected to cure the condition. But when you're in a state when you can barely physically function anymore because you're overwhelmed with anxiety or depression (and I've been on this situation with both) trying to "address your problems" can be near to impossible. Medication can restore some balance and give you the chance to act, and to deal with the issues as much as you can.

Of course I understand medication isn't for everyone. They are powerful things and not completely understood. But for me, almost any price was worth paying to return from what was basically a non-life. As it happens, I have had no serious side effects that I'm aware of. I'm still on a high dose of anti-depressants, and would likely nosedive as soon as I came off them, but I'm no longer on anti-anxiety.

I see the discussion has veered into alternative medicine. I, for one, just for the record, don't support that and I didn't mean to say that "normal" medicine doesn't help people. I was only referring to my own situation - I was answering the OP, therefore. I think that in some cases people don't need medication to deal with stress, they just need will and a different perspective. We are more resilient and resourceful than we think. Of course, there are cases when nothing else but medicine will do - I'm not denying that. I was only referring to far simpler and easier to deal with instances of slight depression, anxiety and so on.

(November 21, 2015 at 11:15 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: I see the discussion has veered into alternative medicine. I, for one, just for the record, don't support that and I didn't mean to say that "normal" medicine doesn't help people. I was only referring to my own situation - I was answering the OP, therefore. I think that in some cases people don't need medication to deal with stress, they just need will and a different perspective. We are more resilient and resourceful than we think. Of course, there are cases when nothing else but medicine will do - I'm not denying that. I was only referring to far simpler and easier to deal with instances of slight depression, anxiety and so on.

I'm not really talking about alternative medicine. I think that the old saying "what is alternative medicine that's been proven to work? medicine". I was arguing that gene therapy is a more viable solution to a lot of the medical problems we see today. I think that even a doctor will admit that psychiatric medicine isn't a fix to the problem. People have to keep taking the medicine for as long as they're having the problem, it doesn't fix anything. I think that what I want to see happening is therapy on the actual cells themselves. We're not advanced enough in medicine for that as far as I can tell, but a friend messaged me today saying that they cured someone's leukemia with gene therapy. There could also be unforeseen consequences of taking these medications. Look at any one of these medicines, the list of possible side effects is enormous and pretty severe. It's just like throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks.

(November 20, 2015 at 9:57 pm)MentalGiant Wrote: @ mh.brewer- Are you a doctor, nurse or otherwise involved somehow in the medical profession? Not attacking you over it or anything, just many of your posts have kind of led me to believe you might be involved with westernized medicine somehow

Yes I am. Pharm. D.

(November 20, 2015 at 10:44 pm)MentalGiant Wrote:

(November 20, 2015 at 10:33 pm)Losty Wrote: So....actual medical practice then?

Naturopathic medicine and homeopathic remedies are actual medical practices too, as are certain practices like acupuncture. It's not that western medicine doesn't have it's place or provide benefit to some people, but it is amusing how people such as yourself completely discredit anything short of getting hacked up and filling yourself with chemicals as "not legitimate medical practice". Why do people assume all non-westernized medical practices involve some kind of rubbing crystals under your armpits while humming under the full moon kind of nonsense?

Show me scientific evidence. Not testimonials or anecdotal statements, that naturopathy/homeopathy is founded in science, the treatment has passed double blind trials, and the treatment outcome is repeatable. At that point I'll be willing to consider that which is put forward on a case by case basis.

You might want to take a look here: http://www.quackwatch.com/

(November 20, 2015 at 11:28 pm)MentalGiant Wrote: You do realize you aren't going to convince those of us who have benefited from alternative medicine when western medicine failed that westernized medicine is the only 'real' form of treatment right? Part of the 'problem' with many natural remedies not being recognized by mainstream medicine is no one will do the 'accepted' studies on them because there is no money to be made off them. You really can't patent an herb or extract of something that occurs naturally, which severely limits potential profits if you are a large drug companys. You can, however, put a patent on some chemical that doesn't occur anywhere in nature you've concocted  in a lab somewhere. Which do you think a drug company is going to invest the $$$ for a full scale drug trial for- the herbal remedy they can't patent and *might* make a couple million off of at most (over a very long timescale) OR some pharmaceutical drug they can patent then jack up the price on until the patent expires while they rake in tens of billions from on a very short timescale?

Put forward the names of the remedies that you claim are working. Let us judge for ourselves.

I will agree that there is a problem with patent process/law when it comes to medication.

(November 21, 2015 at 12:33 am)MentalGiant Wrote: And I do not have to wear an ostomy bag for the rest of my life because pharmaceutical drugs and the fucktards who called themselves 'doctors' failed to bring my condition under control while creating unbearable side effects in the process. Naturopathic medicine put my condition into long term remission without surgery. I do not really give a flying fuck whether it was the tinctures of some herbs and roots with 0 side effects or the placebo effect. At the end of the day, I did not have to have life altering surgery in the name of refusing something that wasn't backed by "double blind studies" and governmental bureaucracy.

I sincerely hope you are never faced with a situation where pharmaceutical drugs fail to help you since you are unwilling to open your mind to other options that have never undergone "properly controlled double blind studies"".

Tell us your condition and give us the names of the natural remedies and then let us judge for ourselves.