(December 12, 2015 at 12:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 11, 2015 at 11:47 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Of course you do. You're a woman and your husband is a believer, so it is expected of you that your beliefs and thoughts conform to his. I'm sure the Pope and all the other men in dresses in charge of your beliefs are very content with that...

Haha, if you knew the nature of mine and my husband's relationship you wouldn't even joke about that. I wear the pants, baby! 

That's quite heretical, C_L.

(December 11, 2015 at 11:39 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Then you're wrong.  Crackers don't turn into flesh, wine doesn't turn into blood, and I can devise an experiment to demonstrate that, if you have the guts to challenge your silly claims.

We don't believe they physically turn into flesh/blood. It's more of a spiritual thing, but definitely something that we think is very real.

Why would anyone think that?

(December 13, 2015 at 1:32 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 11, 2015 at 11:39 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Then you're wrong.  Crackers don't turn into flesh, wine doesn't turn into blood, and I can devise an experiment to demonstrate that, if you have the guts to challenge your silly claims.

We don't believe they physically turn into flesh/blood. It's more of a spiritual thing, but definitely something that we think is very real.

the Catechism' authors Wrote:The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1376.htm

Clearly, by use of the word "substance" in this context, the reference is to material change, not "spiritual" -- whatever you mean by that.

(December 13, 2015 at 2:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 1:32 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We don't believe they physically turn into flesh/blood. It's more of a spiritual thing, but definitely something that we think is very real.

the Catechism\ authors Wrote:The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1376.htm

Clearly, by use of the word "substance" in this context, the reference is to material change, not "spiritual" -- whatever you mean by that.

Yes, perhaps spiritual is not the right word to explain it. But obviously we don't believe it physically becomes skin and blood, since it is still bread and wine when we consume it. It is still in the form of bread and wine, but Jesus is physically present. I'd say that's the best way to describe it.

(December 13, 2015 at 8:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 2:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1376.htm

Clearly, by use of the word "substance" in this context, the reference is to material change, not "spiritual" -- whatever you mean by that.

Yes, perhaps spiritual is not the right word to explain it. But obviously we don't believe it physically becomes skin and blood, since it is still bread and wine when we consume it. It is still in the form of bread and wine, but Jesus is physically present. I'd say that's the best way to describe it.

The fact that it sounds so ridiculous you can't even explain it should tell you a lot.

(December 13, 2015 at 8:46 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 8:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, perhaps spiritual is not the right word to explain it. But obviously we don't believe it physically becomes skin and blood, since it is still bread and wine when we consume it. It is still in the form of bread and wine, but Jesus is physically present. I'd say that's the best way to describe it.

The fact that it sounds so ridiculous you can't even explain it should tell you a lot.

Marry me, you sexy beast you. And then we can consummate.

(December 13, 2015 at 8:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 2:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1376.htm

Clearly, by use of the word "substance" in this context, the reference is to material change, not "spiritual" -- whatever you mean by that.

Yes, perhaps spiritual is not the right word to explain it. But obviously we don't believe it physically becomes skin and blood, since it is still bread and wine when we consume it. It is still in the form of bread and wine, but Jesus is physically present. I'd say that's the best way to describe it.

The Catechism says differently, though. It specifically states that the substance of the wafer becomes the substance of Christ's body. It is very clear on this matter.

Do you reject this part of the Catechism, then?

(December 13, 2015 at 8:46 am)excitedpenguin Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 8:22 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, perhaps spiritual is not the right word to explain it. But obviously we don't believe it physically becomes skin and blood, since it is still bread and wine when we consume it. It is still in the form of bread and wine, but Jesus is physically present. I'd say that's the best way to describe it.

The fact that it sounds so ridiculous you can't even explain it should tell you a lot.

From what I've read, Catholics believe that the substance of bread and wine are changed into the substance of Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity (hence the term "transubstantiation") but the original appearance, smell, taste, etc. (called "accidents") remain.

(December 13, 2015 at 2:21 pm)athrock Wrote:

(December 13, 2015 at 8:46 am)excitedpenguin Wrote: The fact that it sounds so ridiculous you can't even explain it should tell you a lot.

From what I've read, Catholics believe that the substance of bread and wine are changed into the substance of Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity (hence the term "transubstantiation") but the original appearance, smell, taste, etc. (called "accidents") remain.

Yeah, they had to come up with some sort of bullshit explanation to explain why the cracker was still there the first time a sick kid puked after receiving the host.