(January 3, 2016 at 9:45 am)Jehanne Wrote: What were your reasons?  Fear of death?  Nothingness?  Or, what convinced you that god, in fact, exists?

Some people will tell any lie when it will get them attention, especially paid interviews.

Anybody can claim they are or were atheist, just as anyone can claim to be a devout Xtian. Whether or not they really were, or understood the meaning of the claim they make is usually the first question which should be asked. At least the atheists who understand atheism can clearly define what that means without resorting to dismissing the doubter as willfully ignorant.

On death, it happens to all no matter what they believe. On the nothingness which follows, nothing is something which you should know cannot hurt you - not when there is no neural activity by which one could feel it. On being convinced, this is where you either have a case which has made you believe in one or more gods over many thousands of others, you believe in all of them despite their conflicts, or you have no good reason to believe in any of them. Part of growing up is to stop inventing imaginary friends just because we're lonely, and this is a problem with theists.

(January 5, 2016 at 1:08 pm)*Deidre* Wrote:

(January 5, 2016 at 9:17 am)Jehanne Wrote: Assuming that you believe in god, do you also believe that he/she/it answers prayers, that is, is the outcome of some particular event in the future changed as a result of someone praying versus that same individual not praying?

That's a good question. I've always had mixed feelings about others praying over others. For example, when I returned to faith last year, a Christian friend said to me 'I had been praying for you to come back!' And she meant well I wasn't offended or anything, but while I pray now, I view it more as a way for me to connect deeper with God. On a personal level. I don't believe prayers are a laundry list of wants and needs when as I had first viewed them before I left Christianity. I just view my return to faith as a result of a personal faith experience I had last year.

This, of course, gets into the whole question of semantics and what one means by the word "Christian".  Neil degrasse Tyson once described himself as being a "Christian" even though he has stated that he is an "atheist".  I suppose that there can be "Christian materialists" just as there can be "Christian atheists."

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(January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: On death, it happens to all no matter what they believe. On the nothingness which follows, nothing is something which you should know cannot hurt you - not when there is no neural activity by which one could feel it.

Well stated.  It does not matter what one believes; I, for one, can believe, passionately, that the South won the Civil War.  In any case, I think that the point you're making needs to be emphasized by the atheistic community more.

I've come to the conclusion that "Christian" just means that you identify as a Christian, nothing more. For any rule you try to set up there will always be someone breaking it but still saying they are Christian. Since it's all arbitrary anyway, I don't see how anyone has the authority to decide who is and isn't one. I just don't think it's at all well-defined.

Especially considering it's all just statements of belief, which no one is required to actually hold even if they say they do.

(January 5, 2016 at 2:00 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(January 3, 2016 at 9:45 am)Jehanne Wrote: What were your reasons?  Fear of death?  Nothingness?  Or, what convinced you that god, in fact, exists?

Some people will tell any lie when it will get them attention, especially paid interviews.

Anybody can claim they are or were atheist, just as anyone can claim to be a devout Xtian. Whether or not they really were, or understood the meaning of the claim they make is usually the first question which should be asked. At least the atheists who understand atheism can clearly define what that means without resorting to dismissing the doubter as willfully ignorant.

On death, it happens to all no matter what they believe. On the nothingness which follows, nothing is something which you should know cannot hurt you - not when there is no neural activity by which one could feel it. On being convinced, this is where you either have a case which has made you believe in one or more gods over many thousands of others, you believe in all of them despite their conflicts, or you have no good reason to believe in any of them. Part of growing up is to stop inventing imaginary friends just because we're lonely, and this is a problem with theists.

I've never dismissed any 'doubters' ...it's just not my thing. You sound like my Christian friends however who when I left the faith for a few years said...'you were never a true Christian.' 
Didn't think this mindset goes on in atheist circles lol

At the end of the day, no one can tell someone else how to live...only share what makes your views, your views. For those who want to chastise people on either side of the fence, their rhetoric falls on deaf ears, as far as I'm concerned.

(January 5, 2016 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: I've come to the conclusion that "Christian" just means that you identify as a Christian, nothing more. For any rule you try to set up there will always be someone breaking it but still saying they are Christian. Since it's all arbitrary anyway, I don't see how anyone has the authority to decide who is and isn't one. I just don't think it's at all well-defined.

Especially considering it's all just statements of belief, which no one is required to actually hold even if they say they do.

This is how I view it, too. The term is a label that can set of alarm bells, lol I identify as one, merely because I strive to follow what Jesus taught, but this doesn't make me a drone. It just makes me gravitate towards what He had to say, namely due to the experience I had. But, many people who identify as Christians, feel it is their right to chastise those who don't think and act like them, which when we get down to it, we are all fallible, and no one is in a position to tell another how to live. I follow Jesus for me, not my place to tell someone else to follow along with us. I can share my views, faith beliefs, experiences, and if someone wishes to know more, then we can discuss. But, Christianity has developed a rather dark reputation because its ''preachers'' are just too noisy, and don't really display a life worth following. 

Again, I praise your attitude

Even when it comes to "Jesus", everyone has their own idea about what he was, what he was like, what he actually said and what his message was etc.

(January 5, 2016 at 4:03 pm)robvalue Wrote: Again, I praise your attitude

Even when it comes to "Jesus", everyone has their own idea about what he was, what he was like, what he actually said and what his message was etc.

Thank you, I praise yours!   

I think in part it comes from religion. Religion tries to dictate to people HOW to follow God. And if you go outside of that HOW, then you're screwed. lol I'm grateful I left faith for a few years, identified as an atheist, because it took that happening for me to see that religion was what I was once following, not God, necessarily. Not to say God can be your cat. lol Well, maybe my cat thinks he is God, lol but...you know what I mean? Like, sometimes non-believers will look at believers and think that we are conjuring up God as we go along. (for some, maybe lol)

Christians are still held to 'some type' of standard, as Jesus spoke about how to conduct one's life, etc...but even then, some people will take a very harsh view as to what He implied, and others just see Jesus as a realist, and that is how I see Him.

I think what many atheists miss in the attraction to religion/Gods, is that the idea of there being something else going on is, I don't know if intuitive is the right word, but at least understandable. Particularly as an experience rather than a word problem.

I think part of that is the spectacle of existence. It's fancy as hell, and trying to reduce it to evolution and physics, even if you know that's the facts of it, doesn't drown out the experience of it. We know, for example, that love is just <insert physiological explanation>. But when you are 'in love', the feeling overwhelms the knowledge of the fact.

I've found it very interesting that I know some things are lies intellectually, but that they provide so much positive feedback that it trumps my ability to not believe the lie in practice. If you have a kid, you know the bond is biological trickery, yet it's so positive, the rationalization of what's happening is tossed aside, and we fully embrace the nonsense.

That type of connection can exist in a lot of ways. I know 'spirituality' is dumb, but I'm rarely puzzled by it. In fact, it's probably evolutionary.

(January 5, 2016 at 4:01 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I strive to follow what Jesus taught

No one knows what Jesus taught, and the various perceptions of who he was (assuming, of course, that he even existed in the first place, which, IMO, seems at least certain).  Most likely, he was some guy born in Galilee who had delusions of grandeur, probably, an epileptic or schizoid.  After a year or so of "ministry", his pals encouraged him to go down to Jerusalem, where he got in trouble with the Romans, arrested and then executed.  His body was likely tossed into a shallow grave and consumed by wild dogs.  As none of the Gospel writers were eyewitnesses (one by his own admission), we cannot say with any certainty what Jesus truly taught.  Some say that he taught this:

lol Hmmm....