(January 7, 2016 at 10:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: LadyForCamus, I'm not hoping these arguments will give you faith in God even though I do believe they point to an eternal source to the universe, what I am hoping for, is that they will spark a search of self-discovery and unseen journey that will lead you to vision of the absolute.

The arguments as strong as they are, are a means, not an end. The end is to know God by God, to witness Her through Her being you and you being Her and then realizing how insignificant you are, and how significant she is.

There is many more arguments. From perpetual identity, to the nature of inheriting our actions, argument from rank, etc...just wait and see. There is many arguments a lot.

They all remind and point to the source, and to me personally prove it conclusively.

However if you ask me why I personally believe, it has nothing to do with these arguments. God is the manifest King to me. I don't follow some dead code called "morality", I follow a living guidance/light who is the light of the universe and all those in it.

Mystic,

You haven't presented one argument. All of your assertions started with "well, if God DOES exist, then..." How about, "if god doesn't exist"? Then what?

(January 7, 2016 at 10:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 10:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: LadyForCamus, I'm not hoping these arguments will give you faith in God even though I do believe they point to an eternal source to the universe, what I am hoping for, is that they will spark a search of self-discovery and unseen journey that will lead you to vision of the absolute.

The arguments as strong as they are, are a means, not an end. The end is to know God by God, to witness Her through Her being you and you being Her and then realizing how insignificant you are, and how significant she is.

There is many more arguments. From perpetual identity, to the nature of inheriting our actions, argument from rank, etc...just wait and see. There is many arguments a lot.

They all remind and point to the source, and to me personally prove it conclusively.

However if you ask me why I personally believe, it has nothing to do with these arguments. God is the manifest King to me. I don't follow some dead code called "morality", I follow a living guidance/light who is the light of the universe and all those in it.

Mystic,

You haven't presented one argument.   All of your assertions started with "well, if God DOES exist, then..."   How about, "if god doesn't exist"?  Then what?  

 We still at this point. I thought I explained this, it's all hypothetical to show that morality is eternal. I'm going to let the wine pass. Tomorrow inshallah.


Another way to pose the argument....if morality wasn't necessarily eternal, it can be imagined a hypothetical creator can create it from nothing in some hypothetical world.

And my point is: stop dealing in hypotheticals. You are asserting that God exists and created morality. Stand by your world view, and show evidence.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:24 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 10:20 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Mystic,

You haven't presented one argument.   All of your assertions started with "well, if God DOES exist, then..."   How about, "if god doesn't exist"?  Then what?  

 We still at this point. I thought I explained this, it's all hypothetical to show that morality is eternal. I'm going to let the wine pass. Tomorrow inshallah.


Another way to pose the argument....if morality wasn't necessarily eternal, it can be imagined a hypothetical creator can create it from nothing in some hypothetical world.

Morality is specific to the human species, and easily explainable by the science of evolution. I feel I have ruined this thread by entertaining your nonsense for as long as I have. You haven't stated a word that was grounded in reality. Consider me done.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:28 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: And my point is: stop dealing in hypotheticals.  You are asserting that God exists and created morality.  Stand by your world view, and show evidence.  

Show you can understand an argument and I show you more inshallah.

I didn't assert God exists so far. I showed morality is eternal and it has been eternally perceived by reasoning that it cannot be in any hypothetical possible world that a possible creator creates morality out of nothing. I showed why, and you are being rather silly like making it I had to assume God exists for the argument to make sense. That's being dishonest to the argument.

I think you have a personality disorder.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:32 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:   Consider me done.

So let's get this straight. We can't claim to know God or even have good arguments for God's existence, or else should persuade you. Yet when we get into a discussion, you are dishonest to the argument, and even if say you are right, are not willing to investigate the other arguments the Theist has but want to be done and finished.

Yes. This is exactly why the Theist has to prove it to the Atheist? No I have the right to say there is plenty of good arguments proving God and my experience has been people don't try to understand them even before denying them.

Just as you can parrot there is no good arguments proving God or evidence or what not, I can balance that and say, there is plenty of good reasons to believe in God.

If it's about persuading the other side or wanting to be persuaded. Then a honest patient discussion should take place.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 10:28 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: And my point is: stop dealing in hypotheticals.  You are asserting that God exists and created morality.  Stand by your world view, and show evidence.  

Show you can understand an argument and I show you more inshallah.

I didn't assert God exists so far. I showed morality is eternal and it has been eternally perceived by reasoning that it cannot be in any hypothetical possible world that a possible creator creates morality out of nothing. I showed why, and you are being rather silly like making it I had to assume God exists for the argument to make sense. That's being dishonest to the argument.

When did you show that morality is eternal? All I've ever seen you do is assert it.

The best minds in philosophical thought debate morality, and there is no consensus. And you, some random forum poster, have solved it.

I don't think so.

Believe me, we all understand your arguments. Better than you do actually, because we are able to point out the fallacies and flaws that you obviously miss.

If that's how you see this situation than....sure.

(January 7, 2016 at 10:40 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(January 7, 2016 at 10:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Show you can understand an argument and I show you more inshallah.

I didn't assert God exists so far. I showed morality is eternal and it has been eternally perceived by reasoning that it cannot be in any hypothetical possible world that a possible creator creates morality out of nothing. I showed why, and you are being rather silly like making it I had to assume God exists for the argument to make sense. That's being dishonest to the argument.

When did you show that morality is eternal? All I've ever seen you do is assert it.

The best minds in philosophical thought debate morality, and there is no consensus. And you, some random forum poster, have solved it.

I don't think so.

Believe me, we all understand your arguments. Better than you do actually, because we are able to point out the fallacies and flaws that you obviously miss.

Lol, thanks Simon. What's this guys' deal anyway?!