(January 13, 2016 at 5:15 am)paulpablo Wrote:

(January 13, 2016 at 5:04 am)yukapuka Wrote: this whole conversation is like somebody saying "what is physics" having never studied its laws and rules

or even better analogy is the story which comes from buddha about them men in the dark room that touched different parts of an elephent having never seen a elephant and feeling different parts of the elephant and then later describing it differently amongst themselves not realizing that they were all wrong and had only touched a part of the elephant

none of you actually know anything about Islam , what do you expect that information to come from? Islam is studied for decades by the faqih(jursit) before it he can use it in jurisprudence just like any other law system in the world

nobody just goes "oh i know the whole law of the country" and hence is able to deduce what is true and false regarding it

you keep saying "we dont know what Islam is about" and that is because you actually DON'T know what Islam is about

i dont now how many time is need to repeat this before the penny drops for one of you

and the worst things is you keep asking one another as if this group of people here are the only ones left in the world and think they know everything about it , it really is like the analogy Jesus gave "blind leading the blind"

your problem isnt wit Islam, as i said before it is with your ignorance

Imam Ali said once famously

"Our enemies are not the Jews or the Christians, our enemy is ignorance"

and this applies to you right here right now except the part of Jews and Christians is replaced with [insert here your current concluded enemy]

I know what Islam is about, its about the submission to gods will in the form of a book written in arabic that's supposed to be addressed to all man kind and even people who speak arabic can't agree on the correct translations; interpretations, abrogations or correct hadiths. In other words bullshit

based on what and who? imagine this where a court of law

if you went in and said that statement , do you know what is the first thing they will ask you? where is your references

besides reality point to otherwise, majority of Muslims live in peace and follow the law of Islam and law of the country they live in without any conflicts or clashes

again this comes down to your level of knowledge ABOUT Islam , one question where do you get your sources of information for such a conclusion and second how did you come to those conclusions, prove them

you cant just say "it is like this" without being questioned why you believe so

and dont say "because ISIS exists"

ISIS would have existed even if the people in it were not of ANY religion or ANY other religion , because their goals are material and power and revenge driven

what does Islam have with owning oil fields and lots of money? when in fact it preaches the opposite to be humble and to take as little from this life as possible and to live on the basics necessities

it doesn't preach about taking lands , it doesn't preach about this life in general and denounces the life of this world and seeking it and encourages seeking the hereafter with good deeds and helping people and charity and peace

so again , who and what are your sources?

(January 12, 2016 at 11:33 pm)Cato Wrote:

(January 12, 2016 at 7:26 pm)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: They are a monster the United States and al-Saud created after they had sex because they want to control Syria.

I'm tired of hearing this tripe. Please tell me what the U.S. has to do with an ideology consummated decades before its founding in the marriage of al-Wahhab and al-Saud? ISIS is only its current untethered manifestation.

Well the United States wanted to counter influence of Communism so they gave money and weapons to 'extremists'. Today we are paying the price (e.g. Taliban). And, secondly, the terrorists in Syria are using American made weapons. Either the Americans are giving weapons to terrorists, America doesn't care if Saudi gives its weapons to terrorists or the Americans still (stupidly) think that there is a secular opposition in Syria. Some may have come from Iraqi military bases but the fact is TOWs and M16s are made by Americans.

(January 13, 2016 at 6:02 am)yukapuka Wrote:

(January 13, 2016 at 5:08 am)Irrational Wrote: So ISIS is not Islamic?

if you cant figure it out yet, ISIS is satanic

You sure it's not Illuminati? Or aliens?

(January 13, 2016 at 7:21 am)Stimbo Wrote:

(January 13, 2016 at 6:02 am)yukapuka Wrote: if you cant figure it out yet, ISIS is satanic

You sure it's not Illuminati? Or aliens?

As a member of the Illuminati myself, I can confirm it is not us.

(January 13, 2016 at 7:01 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote:

(January 12, 2016 at 11:33 pm)Cato Wrote: I'm tired of hearing this tripe. Please tell me what the U.S. has to do with an ideology consummated decades before its founding in the marriage of al-Wahhab and al-Saud? ISIS is only its current untethered manifestation.

Well the United States wanted to counter influence of Communism so they gave money and weapons  to 'extremists'. Today we are paying the price (e.g. Taliban). And, secondly, the terrorists in Syria are using American made weapons. Either the Americans are giving weapons to terrorists, America doesn't care if Saudi gives its weapons to terrorists or the Americans still (stupidly) think that there is a secular opposition in Syria. Some may have come from Iraqi military bases but the fact is TOWs and M16s are made by Americans.

So, what you're really saying is that you assign the U.S. some culpability because it made decisions without a functioning crystal ball. ISIS is born out of an ideology, an ideology that has existed for centuries. It didn't just appear the moment someone saw a pile of surplus weapons with no Communists to point them at.

Saying the U.S. doesn't care if KSA gives its weapons to terrorists is criminally stupid. Why do you think KSA puts on a grand show of executing members of ISIS? You can speculate all you want, but if the KSA is ever found out, game over.

Blaming the existence if ISIS on availability of weapons is ignoring the 800lb. gorilla in the room.

(January 13, 2016 at 7:23 am)Cato Wrote:

(January 13, 2016 at 7:01 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote: Well the United States wanted to counter influence of Communism so they gave money and weapons  to 'extremists'. Today we are paying the price (e.g. Taliban). And, secondly, the terrorists in Syria are using American made weapons. Either the Americans are giving weapons to terrorists, America doesn't care if Saudi gives its weapons to terrorists or the Americans still (stupidly) think that there is a secular opposition in Syria. Some may have come from Iraqi military bases but the fact is TOWs and M16s are made by Americans.

So, what you're really saying is that you assign the U.S. some culpability because it made decisions without a functioning crystal ball. ISIS is born out of an ideology, an ideology that has existed for centuries. It didn't just appear the moment someone saw a pile of surplus weapons with no Communists to point them at.

Saying the U.S. doesn't care if KSA gives its weapons to terrorists is criminally stupid. Why do you think KSA puts on a grand show of executing members of ISIS? You can speculate all you want, but if the KSA is ever found out, game over.

Blaming the existence if ISIS on availability of weapons is ignoring the 800lb. gorilla in the room.

The gorilla in the room, is the terrorist organizations that always appear after American invasions; from south America to Afghanistan up until Iraq. Always the same style, same movements, same war that despite going for decades it never ends.

That's a big ass gorilla if you ask me..

(January 13, 2016 at 6:07 am)yukapuka Wrote:

(January 13, 2016 at 5:15 am)paulpablo Wrote: I know what Islam is about, its about the submission to gods will in the form of a book written in arabic that's supposed to be addressed to all man kind and even people who speak arabic can't agree on the correct translations; interpretations, abrogations or correct hadiths. In other words bullshit

based on what and who? imagine this where a court of law

if you went in and said that statement , do you know what is the first thing they will ask you? where is your references

besides reality point to otherwise, majority of Muslims live in peace and follow the law of Islam and law of the country they live in without any conflicts or clashes

again this comes down to your level of knowledge ABOUT Islam , one question where do you get your sources of information for such a conclusion and second how did you come to those conclusions, prove them

you cant just say "it is like this" without being questioned why you believe so

and dont say "because ISIS exists"

ISIS would have existed even if the people in it were not of ANY religion or ANY other religion , because their goals are material and power and revenge driven

what does Islam have with owning oil fields and lots of money? when in fact it preaches the opposite to be humble and to take as little from this life as possible and to live on the basics necessities

it doesn't preach about taking lands , it doesn't preach about this life in general and denounces the life of this world and seeking it and encourages seeking the hereafter with good deeds and helping people and charity and peace

so again , who and what are your sources?

None of what you just said has anything to do with what I'm saying. Islam is submission to gods will, I'm saying I don't believe the Quran is the word of God anyway so all Muslims are equally Islamic to me.

The Quran and Hadith contain several verses that could be interpreted as violant.

(January 13, 2016 at 5:04 am)yukapuka Wrote: this whole conversation is like somebody saying "what is physics" having never studied its laws and rules

or even better analogy is the story which comes from buddha about them men in the dark room that touched different parts of an elephent having never seen a elephant and feeling different parts of the elephant and then later describing it differently amongst themselves not realizing that they were all wrong and had only touched a part of the elephant

none of you actually know anything about Islam , what do you expect that information to come from? Islam is studied for decades by the faqih(jursit) before it he can use it in jurisprudence just like any other law system in the world

nobody just goes "oh i know the whole law of the country" and hence is able to deduce what is true and false regarding it

you keep saying "we dont know what Islam is about" and that is because you actually DON'T know what Islam is about

i dont now how many time is need to repeat this before the penny drops for one of you

and the worst things is you keep asking one another as if this group of people here are the only ones left in the world and think they know everything about it , it really is like the analogy Jesus gave "blind leading the blind"

your problem isnt wit Islam, as i said before it is with your ignorance

Imam Ali said once famously

"Our enemies are not the Jews or the Christians, our enemy is ignorance"

and this applies to you right here right now except the part of Jews and Christians is replaced with [insert here your current concluded enemy]

No. It's not "what is physics". You can't fool me because I'm an Arab, so I understand the language

ISIS is Saudi Arabia 100 years ago; period. They even execute people using the same method : chopping the head, both stone women to death. And both love to take slaves. Also, both are having the same flag (with slight differences like the background color).

Read the history of Wahhabism, and there you go : you unlocked ISIS.

And we all know that ISIS is backing everything it does with very strong Sunni/Wahhabi teachings, usually based on the same Hadiths that Muslims used in the past to bully and slaughter other people.

I assume you're familiar with the amounts of insulting Hadiths that order Muslims to butcher, rape, enslave & torture whom they don't like. ISIS is a very possible (and probable) outcome resulting from the Sunni faith.

Shia aren't any better; actually they also have their own "ISIS". We saw what the militias of Iran did in Iraq.
To sum it up, the Muslim sects (Sunna, Shia) are the reason why we have ISIS.

I know it's controlled and probably fabricated by the CIA (just like in Afghanistan), but if Muslim sects didn't exist, ISIS wouldn't have existed. 

The Sunni fire that the Ummayads started, just turned around to bite us in sensitive areas.

What I'm saying is the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a terrible idea. Bombing people creates more terrorists. And now Iraqi Sunnis feel marginalised by the Shia government. Would rather have Saddam than this mess.

No, They are islamic, Very much so. Next.