No Buddhism should not get a free pass. I love zen as it has a positive impact on my health and well being. I love yoga as it does the same.

Since i don't have access to navy seal training I learn these things from the books that authors have put out.

I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did.

I don't believe he ever claimed to be THE son of a god or that he did miracles. However, his people may have to make him seem divine somehow.

Finally the Dali lama once said to some one who was interested in becoming a Buddhist "Don't be a Buddhist. the world doesn't need more Buddhists. Be compassionate. The world needs more compassion."

This impressed me because almost every other mainstream religion is more concerned with you/me being in their faith than just being good people. I could not see the Pope saying this. True it by no means makes some one a better person by being "Buddhist". Still when i hear the Dali lama speak it seems much more aligned with a wold peace attitude.

I don't know a lot about the religion of Buddhism but I do understand it's practical application.

I also feel that the Dali lama would not argue with you on it. He might agree that everyone should look closely at the actions of themselves and others and determine if they are a positive force on the world or not.

i don't imagine a Christian or Muslim doing the same. Instead they would consult their holly book with out question.

(January 18, 2016 at 12:28 pm)miaharun Wrote: I have no problem of considering karma and rebirth are wrong. I have stated many times that i doubt it being there or not. i "miaharun" find it hard to believe that a horrible incident like rape can happen to one person by chance out of 7 billions people. I prefer to use karma (magic force if you may) for that explanation.

Yeah, we know...you find it hard to believe that it happened "by chance" and so instead you decide to believe that she deserved it.  

Quote:Again, i am also one person out of 7 billion. People are different, everyone has a different personality. If everyone thought like you on this planet, there would be no creativity, nothing to look forward, everyone will be driving the same model of a car. Again, i have no problem of accepting karma and rebirth are "nonsense" or "magic". I just like to believe in it for the reasons i have stated prior to this post. I live by the dhamma but I don't shove it down anyone's throat. Peace !

Yeah, you say you believe because it helps you to be a good person.....and if you have some definition for "good person" that's interchangeable with "superstitious victim blamer"..then I'm sure it does.

(January 18, 2016 at 12:28 pm)miaharun Wrote: I have no problem of considering karma and rebirth are wrong. I have stated many times that i doubt it being there or not. i "miaharun" find it hard to believe that a horrible incident like rape can happen to one person by chance out of 7 billions people. I prefer to use karma (magic force if you may) for that explanation. Again, i am also one person out of 7 billion. People are different, everyone has a different personality. If everyone thought like you on this planet, there would be no creativity, nothing to look forward, everyone will be driving the same model of a car. Again, i have no problem of accepting karma and rebirth are "nonsense" or "magic". I just like to believe in it for the reasons i have stated prior to this post. I live by the dhamma but I don't shove it down anyone's throat. Peace !

We don't care what you "prefer", so what. Other people who believe in Allah or Jesus "prefer" to chalk rape up to the perp's "sin. 

Now please read and try to get this.

Rape has a natural non religious reason for happening. Rape happens because the person who commits it lacks a sense of control in their own life. It is bullying except the release of power over others is done through sex. Sex actually has very little to do with rape. The act is about POWER over others. 

You like to believe it? We are talking about rape, not a fucking action movie. We aren't talking about Dirty Harry or John Wayne saving a damsel in distress. We are not talking about a Halmark movie where daddy lectures his daughter about tight cloths and dark allies. THIS IS FUCKING REAL LIFE HERE.

I hope you don't stupidly think, for example, it is impossible for men to get raped. I hope you also don't think that arousal of the victim of rape, male or female, means they secretly liked it.

You have no idea in a clinical sense in a medical sense what rape is, otherwise you wouldn't say "I prefer". You are not just insulting me with bad logic, you are literally shitting on my mother, and my two sisters who have been raped. Thank you for shitting on my family with bad logic.

If you want to know what rape is, which I think everyone should learn, do it from a scientific standpoint, a clinical standpoint, and skip the word salad excuses.

(January 18, 2016 at 12:49 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: No Buddhism should not get a free pass.  I love zen as it has a positive impact on my health and well being.  I love yoga as it does the same.  

Since i don't have access to navy seal training I learn these things from the books that authors have put out.  

I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did.

I don't believe he ever claimed to be THE son of a god or that he did miracles.  However, his people may have to make him seem divine somehow.

Finally the Dali lama once said to some one who was interested in becoming a Buddhist "Don't be a Buddhist. the world doesn't need more Buddhists.  Be compassionate.  The world needs more compassion."

This impressed me because almost every other mainstream religion is more concerned with you/me being in their faith than just being good people. I could not see the Pope saying this. True it by no means makes some one a better person by being "Buddhist".  Still when i hear the Dali lama speak it seems much more aligned with a wold peace attitude.

I don't know a lot about the religion of Buddhism but I do understand it's practical application.

I also feel that the Dali lama would not argue with you on it.  He might agree that everyone should look closely at the actions of themselves and others and determine if they are a positive force on the world or not.

i don't imagine a Christian or Muslim doing the same. Instead they would consult their holly book with out question.

So yea you love a club, so?

Zen Buddhism is no more universal to Buddhists than Tibet Buddhists. Just like Jesus is not a unifying figure to Christians. You have competing sects and different interpretations and different rituals like any other religion. It makes you feel good. Yea so?

"Be more compassionate", ok so how does stating the obvious that all human beings can be capable of require the Dali Lama to tell you? You don't need Buddha or Jesus or Allah or Mo, to say "don't be a dick".

Humans like to think they get their morality from religion, but it is quite the opposite. Our ability to be cruel or compassionate has always been in us. Religion as a human invented construct, is backwards, we project  our own desires into those writings and that is how they continue to be marketed. Then we look for excuses in those writings, but the words themselves are not magic.

There was no Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Hebrew ect ect ect ect 200,000 years ago, much less 4 billion years ago. There will be no religion billion of years from now after our species goes extinct.

All you are saying here is you are stuck on something you find pretty. 

QUOTE "I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did."

Despite what most Buddhist claim, there are major discrepancies on the historical "first Buddha" so it depends where in Asia/India you ask that particular historian.

I am sure someone wanted to get attention to some degree, otherwise the movement would not have grown. But Buddhism is hardly even original, it is a spin off of Hinduism. 

It got started like any other religion does. A person, or group of people are not satisfied with the current crop of claims so they co opt older claims and competing surrounding claims to start a new movement. 

The oldest depictions of the alleged first Buddha are rooted in superstition and also on top of that based on the Vedas as well.

(January 18, 2016 at 12:06 pm)miaharun Wrote: I apologize for expressing my views and making all of you use such offensive language. Peace

Be sorry instead that you condone rape and consider the victims of rape to be the true criminals.

Any other response than a full renunciation of your earlier views just shows you to be evil.

(January 18, 2016 at 3:37 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 12:06 pm)miaharun Wrote: I apologize for expressing my views and making all of you use such offensive language. Peace

Be sorry instead that you condone rape and consider the victims of rape to be the true criminals.

Any other response than a full renunciation of your earlier views just shows you to be evil.

I don't think most humans are inherently evil. I do think bad logic can and does lead humans to condone evil acts that without such absurd beliefs they wouldn't otherwise. But again, that is what religion does to human thought. It gets otherwise reasonable humans to hold absurd beliefs which lead them to condone bad acts.

It is what allows one Christian to promote compassion, while unwittingly giving cover to other Christians who use the same book to justify cruelty. 

I find the likes of Martin Luther King Jr very empathetic to human struggle. I also find the likes of Malala and Ann Frank to be very empathetic humans. But that does not make any god real, and  unfortunately it also allows humans to remain divided.

Now again, I would become a monster myself as an atheist if I promoted the use of force to end any religion, there is no way in a messy imperfect world anyone is going to create their own utopia. But that does not at the same time mean religion deserves blind value or deserves to be blasphemy free.

(January 18, 2016 at 12:49 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did.

I'm inclined to believe that the Buddha consciously intended to profit off his teachings. I think he started out looking for enlightenment, but stopped short once people started paying attention to him for his 'method'. The Buddha was a religious charlatan like any other, selling a road to a freedom which doesn't exist. Whether that qualifies as wanting to found a religion or not is debatable, but he definitely prospered from forming a cult, and that cult grew to be a religion.

(January 18, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 12:49 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did.

I'm inclined to believe that the Buddha consciously intended to profit off his teachings.  I think he started out looking for enlightenment, but stopped short once people started paying attention to him for his 'method'.  The Buddha was a religious charlatan like any other, selling a road to a freedom which doesn't exist.  Whether that qualifies as wanting to found a religion or not is debatable, but he definitely prospered from forming a cult, and that cult grew to be a religion.

The only argument anyone has for any founder of any religion, would be that the person or people truly believed in what they were selling. But just like modern times, you still have people who stand in positions of religious power, know they are selling crap, and still don't care about the gullible they prey on. Such as the likes of Benny Hinn.

It could be that whomever started Buddhism may have thought they were onto something. But it is far more likely that a group of humans took a legend and exploited it. The underdog story is very appealing to the masses. The image of altruism is a very appealing concept and that gets wrapped up in myths and legends and those get turned into new religions.

Buddhism really is no better than any other religion. It still has those who have no ill intent but are simply stuck on a label, and others who use the label to get others to follow and can be just as corrupt. There is no such thing as a perfect or pure religion.

(January 18, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(January 18, 2016 at 12:49 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: I don't believe the original Buddha wanted to start a religion but naturally the people did.

I'm inclined to believe that the Buddha consciously intended to profit off his teachings.  I think he started out looking for enlightenment, but stopped short once people started paying attention to him for his 'method'.  The Buddha was a religious charlatan like any other, selling a road to a freedom which doesn't exist.  Whether that qualifies as wanting to found a religion or not is debatable, but he definitely prospered from forming a cult, and that cult grew to be a religion.

that might be debatable since, as the story goes, he was already a prince and so stood to inherit profit anyway. His road to freedom does exist but not outside of ones living perception and not without effort. I see this as a far cry from a promise of a heaven. Now don't misunderstand me. I'm pretty sure many others saw the opportunity to profit and did. As in any human made philosophy one must see this and judge for oneself.
To me the large difference is that the Buddhist says "don't take my word for it. see for yourself." The monotheistic says "believe me or burn in hell."

I don't wish to be another Delicate and get banned, For what it's worth, I'm no where near "evil" . Peace and have a nice day