(January 20, 2016 at 5:25 am)pool the great Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 4:30 am)Mathilda Wrote: UK and Germany in IT. I have a PhD, MSc, BSc, lots of experience and no children.

What?
Are you telling me that there is discrimination against women in UK and Germany in the IT sector?

In some companies yes. Germany is worse than the UK.

(January 20, 2016 at 4:27 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(January 19, 2016 at 9:23 pm)Heat Wrote: Okay and? One article doesn't magically change the rules of an argument. Also, I never stated there was no gender pay gap, I simply said based on the rules of an argument we are to assume there isn't one by default, because we have no reason to believe there is a gender pay gap in either direction(men, women), until proven so.

I will however, check the article out.

I think that what Pink said is important though. And that's that men tend to take different jobs than women, so it's hard to judge. Also I agree with her and highly doubt there is any instances where someone is directly getting paid less for the same exact job and hours based on gender, I mean that simply seems fallacious, it would be illegal surely, yet feminists act like it is common practice and accepted in society. No one would accept this. If this existed it would be very easy for women to take their pay check, then take their male co workers pay check, hold them up in comparison and point out the obvious differences and inequalities within them. I will look where the evidence points, obviously, nothing i'm saying is definite, however I think if you use some logic, it's not hard to see there may be some skewing of the statistics.

If we take what's been claimed many times as exactly what is true word for word, there would be numerous instances of women comparing their check to their co workers. Is it possible that they are comparing the same work from different states and it appears higher for men because of tax difference(because they are skewing the stat. and not showing men's as after tax and womens as before)? Is it possible that the stats are not exactly what they say and they are comparing people in the same line of work, from different positions? These are all questions I would raise out of logical reasoning, however again, I am not stating these as facts, and will look at the actual information and the validity of it to decide for myself.

Problem is that it is very difficult to prove that you are being paid less. First there is a taboo about revealing your wage. Secondly companies try to stop it happening. My last company had a clause in my contract saying that I could not reveal my wage.

If there was a clause, and you were so afraid of revealing your wage, how did you know you were being paid less for the exact same job, hours, and position opposed to a male Co worker?

See we are not making a claim.
You are making a claim that women are discriminated against and there indeed is a pay gap.
It's not our job to prove your claim.
And until there is proof, it can be dismissed the say way God is dismissed.

(January 20, 2016 at 5:28 am)Heat Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 4:27 am)Mathilda Wrote: Problem is that it is very difficult to prove that you are being paid less. First there is a taboo about revealing your wage. Secondly companies try to stop it happening. My last company had a clause in my contract saying that I could not reveal my wage.

If there was a clause, and you were so afraid of revealing your wage, how did you know you were being paid less for the exact same job, hours, and position opposed to a male Co worker?

That was a different company. I have had more than one job you know.

(January 20, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 5:25 am)pool the great Wrote: What?
Are you telling me that there is discrimination against women in UK and Germany in the IT sector?

In some companies yes. Germany is worse than the UK.

Which companies?
I'd like some actual evidence rather than baseless assertions, no offence.

(January 20, 2016 at 5:39 am)pool the great Wrote: See we are not making a claim.
You are making a claim that women are discriminated against and there indeed is a pay gap.
It's not our job to prove your claim.
And until there is proof, it can be dismissed the say way God is dismissed.

First you ask for any example of a woman being paid less than a man.

I gave you one. Myself. It has happened to me in the past.

Now you are asking for proof.

See you're just moving the goal posts and unwilling to conceded that it can happen. Same way that you are demanding personal details to be posted on-line knowing that people are not going to do that.

How am I supposed to get a copy of an ex-colleague's wage slip? Are you expecting me to get in contact with previous companies that I used to work for and ask them to send me a list of their employees and how much they are being paid so that I can provide proof to some anonymous poster on the internet?

I can make unreasonable demands too.

Until you provide proof of your inside anus measurement then by your logic I can equally dismiss everything you say. Both bits of information are useless because neither of us will be physically checking the data.

(January 20, 2016 at 5:43 am)pool the great Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mathilda Wrote: In some companies yes. Germany is worse than the UK.

Which companies?
I'd like some actual evidence rather than baseless assertions, no offence.

No. Fuck off.

While you're at it, try asking for me to post my CV online, a scan of my passport and bank details ...

(January 20, 2016 at 5:39 am)Mathilda Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 5:28 am)Heat Wrote: If there was a clause, and you were so afraid of revealing your wage, how did you know you were being paid less for the exact same job, hours, and position opposed to a male Co worker?

That was a different company. I have had more than one job you know.

Yes I assume so, but still if it was so frowned upon in each clmpany(if not specifically outlawed) how did you even find out, and what measures would the company take to keep it concealed? 

I'm asking this out of both curiosity and doubt.

(January 20, 2016 at 5:43 am)pool the great Wrote:

(January 20, 2016 at 5:27 am)Mathilda Wrote: In some companies yes. Germany is worse than the UK.

Which companies?
I'd like some actual evidence rather than baseless assertions, no offence.

You really need to stop asking people for private information, like companies they've worked at, and who their friends are. If it is in the effort to finding the truth, there are many other methods in which you can go about disproving the claims. I'm not even sure how getting a specific companies name to analyze personal testimony would detract from the broader grand scheme of things claim being put forth.