For some reason he wants us to not think he's an idiot.

It isn't working.

(January 22, 2016 at 12:59 pm)athrock Wrote:  

1. The Canaanites were actually a perverse people, and God patiently waited 400 years (from the time of Abraham to Joshua) allowing the Canaanites time to amend their evil ways. Instead, their wickedness actually increased, so God used the Israelites to punish the Canaanites for their sins – just as He had punished all mankind by means of the flood earlier, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and even the Israelites themselves by means of forty years spent in the wilderness and the Babylonian captivity. Clearly, God was no harder on the Canaanites than He was upon His own people.
   
2. The Canaanites had the opportunity to flee; by choosing to stay and fight, they resisted God and sealed their own fate. 
   
3. It is evident that the Israelites didn’t literally kill every single Canaanite man, woman and child, because the Canaanites continued to appear in the Bible long after the time when they were allegedly wiped out. It is more likely that the authors of the Old Testament books used metaphorical or hyperbolic language to express the message they wanted to convey about Israel’s victories over the Canaanites.
   

 

Late to the party....but:

1.  Since -when- was perversion an excuse for genocide?  If someone (or, in fact, everyone) told you to kill someone for the crime of "perversion" allow me to believe that you would not comply.  
2. Some segment of a populace will -always- fight to defend their lives, even if they were in the wrong by some other standard.  This is hardly a revelation.
3. That a people didn't fully execute, down to every last feotus and child, a sadistic order, is no comment upon the the sadism of the order.

Seriously, what the hell?

We know that Yahweh was a war god that was worshiped by many tribes in the Middle East.  Archaeologists have shown that the Hebrews were a Canaanite faction that split from the whole.  The Exodus never happened.  Sure, there was warfare, and Canaanite cities were destroyed, probably by the "new" tribe, the Hebrews.  But they certainly didn't accomplish a complete genocide - - they just celebrated theft and murder and rape.  And the victor writes the account of how GAWD told them to destroy the EVIL people who don't worship the right imaginary friend.  And since the Egyptians ruled the area, off 'n' on, the fairy tale about how the Hebrews were saved by their god from the evil overlords makes a whole lot of sense.  

And now we're fighting over the stupid fairy tales. Whether it's OK for a "deity" to tell people to take another tribe's land, murder it's males and rape it's females.  Well, sure, that was humanity 3000 years ago.  And now a Wholly Babble worshiper is trying to tell us that this behavior is OK??

(January 22, 2016 at 12:59 pm)athrock Wrote: Many people argue that God acted immorally in the Old Testament when He ordered the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites who were living in the land that God had promised to Abraham and his descendants. However, there are several reasons why this is a poor argument.
 
First, if God does not actually exist, then the accounts of His deeds in the Old Testament are meaningless fables, and it does not matter what these stories claim about God.
 
Second, if the purpose of objecting to Old Testament accounts is to hold God and His followers to a standard of behavior, then it is reasonable to ask whose standard should be used and why?
 
Third, if believers in the Judeo-Christian God are to answer for God’s actions in their scriptures, then it seems reasonable to examine the justifications for and explanations of those actions as offered by them including:
 

1. The Canaanites were actually a perverse people, and God patiently waited 400 years (from the time of Abraham to Joshua) allowing the Canaanites time to amend their evil ways. Instead, their wickedness actually increased, so God used the Israelites to punish the Canaanites for their sins – just as He had punished all mankind by means of the flood earlier, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and even the Israelites themselves by means of forty years spent in the wilderness and the Babylonian captivity. Clearly, God was no harder on the Canaanites than He was upon His own people.
   
2. The Canaanites had the opportunity to flee; by choosing to stay and fight, they resisted God and sealed their own fate. 
   
3. It is evident that the Israelites didn’t literally kill every single Canaanite man, woman and child, because the Canaanites continued to appear in the Bible long after the time when they were allegedly wiped out. It is more likely that the authors of the Old Testament books used metaphorical or hyperbolic language to express the message they wanted to convey about Israel’s victories over the Canaanites.
   

 
Each of these points suggest that there is nothing inconsistent or contradictory about the Judeo-Christian view of a God who is both loving and capable of wiping out evil.

Ironically, atheists often ask, “If God exists, why doesn’t He prevent evil?” The destruction of the Canaanites is an example of God putting an end to evil practices (such as child sacrifices to a false god) just as these atheists demand. Unwilling to let go of this convenient (if impotent) cudgel, however, atheists continue to object to God’s judgment and destruction of the Canaanites—a clear example of wanting to have it both ways.

Finally, while objections to the immorality of the God of the OT may explain why one may not be Jewish or Christian, they offer only an incomplete explanation for why someone is an atheist since there are many alternative views of God that do not require acceptance of anything from the Bible.

So God got pissed when people sacrificed their rug rats to false gods but he was all grins and giggles when they sacrificed them to him.

(January 23, 2016 at 1:25 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Seriously, what the hell?

We know that Yahweh was a war god that was worshiped by many tribes in the Middle East.  Archaeologists have shown that the Hebrews were a Canaanite faction that split from the whole.  The Exodus never happened.  Sure, there was warfare, and Canaanite cities were destroyed, probably by the "new" tribe, the Hebrews.  But they certainly didn't accomplish a complete genocide - - they just celebrated theft and murder and rape.  And the victor writes the account of how GAWD told them to destroy the EVIL people who don't worship the right imaginary friend.  And since the Egyptians ruled the area, off 'n' on, the fairy tale about how the Hebrews were saved by their god from the evil overlords makes a whole lot of sense.  

And now we're fighting over the stupid fairy tales. Whether it's OK for a "deity" to tell people to take another tribe's land, murder it's males and rape it's females.  Well, sure, that was humanity 3000 years ago.  And now a Wholly Babble worshiper is trying to tell us that this behavior is OK??

Is there any difference between them and the ISIS nuts?

(January 22, 2016 at 7:41 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Athrock, why the continued need to rationalize/justify your belief to us? You're allowed to believe what ever you want, it's OK.

What are you really looking for?

What does any apologist want other than to reassure themselves that playing make-believe is intellectually respectable and that their sophistry is pleasing to their god?

(January 22, 2016 at 3:45 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(January 22, 2016 at 3:21 pm)athrock Wrote: I'm not gonna play your game, Chad. The issue at hand is the Canaanites, and your task is to prove why God was immoral for destroying them. There are lots of online articles available to you; I offer this Google search.

Ok, we'll stick with this. I'll take the first link. The abominations of the Canaanites.

Quote:D.
“
These evil practices were the reason the Lord was going to drive the Canaanites out of the land. Not only adherence to the false gods of Canaan was proscribed, but also the means by which the Canaanites attempted to communicate with them. Both the objects and the methods of Canaanite religious life were to be abhorred totally and rejected completely.” (Kalland, Deuteronomy, comments on Deut 18:9

One of the first comments is that Yahweh was mad that the canaanites weren't worshiping him. As I stated before, this is one of the reasons he's so angry, and it's not exactly a sympathetic one.

Quote: To the Canaanite, fertility was of major importance in worship, and both male and female temple prostitution was prevalent ... God had had enough.

This goes into the fact that Yahweh apparently has issues about sex. Though that seems like a personal problem, instead of a reason to call people who disagree with him evil.

Quote:Making their own children “pass through the fire” (Deut 18:10).

Prostitution and child sacrifice.

So far, the Canaanites sound like wonderful folks.

(January 22, 2016 at 3:46 pm)robvalue Wrote: The bible suggests, repeatedly, that killing people based on a voice in your head (or even someone else telling you about a voice in their head) is a good way to act.

If you accept crap like this, then you have no grounds to condemn anyone who ever does something, claiming "God told them to". ISIS, for example. Or any random nutcase gunman.

It's not hard for the side that won to write "God made me do it" in the report.

Imagine that you were one of the Israelites travelling with Joshua. You've been wandering in the desert for 40 years following a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. Every morning you eat manna with has formed like frost on the ground. When you need water, Moses strikes a rock with his staff, and bam....water for milions of people and livestock appears out of nowhere.

Your parents and grandparents, all dead now since they were not permitted to enter the promised land because of their disobedience, told you of all that God did in Egypt: the plagues, the passover, the parting of the Red Sea. In your tent, you still have the jewelry, coins and other precious items that the Egyptians gave to your grandparents and parents as they left Egypt.

In the past few weeks, you entered the Promised Land - passing through the Jordan River which God also parted so that the people could walk through on dry land. You saw all this with your own eyes. And for the past six days, you've marched around the city of Jericho every day. Today, you've just marched around the city seven times, you've blown your trumpet, and you've seen the mighty walls of the city fall.

You tell me, rob...in view of all that God has done in the course of your parents' lives, in light of all that you have witnessed in your own life, and given what has transpired in just the past couple of hours, are you gonna believe and obey God's command to enter the city and destroy its wicked inhabitants or not?

(January 22, 2016 at 4:07 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(January 22, 2016 at 12:59 pm)athrock Wrote: 3. It is evident that the Israelites didn’t literally kill every single Canaanite man, woman and child, because the Canaanites continued to appear in the Bible long after the time when they were allegedly wiped out. It is more likely that the authors of the Old Testament books used metaphorical or hyperbolic language to express the message they wanted to convey about Israel’s victories over the Canaanites.

Still departing from the text whenever you find it convenient to do so, I see.

Prove it.

So I'm living in a magical fairy land...

No. I'm still not going to go slaughter people just because he's been handing out presents. The minute he starts ordering violence is the minute I stop paying attention to him.

I'm sad to hear your morals are so easily corrupted by some sparkles.