(January 26, 2016 at 4:22 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Jesus was a Pharisee.  He believed in all kinds of stuff that Sadducee Jews didn't believe in.

This is something of a departure from normal understanding. What evidence do you have for thinking Jesus was a Pharisee?

(January 26, 2016 at 4:37 am)robvalue Wrote: I would estimate that most of the mythology surrounding the Christian hell has been invented/stolen and isn't bible based. It doesn't really matter what the bible says, it matters what you can force a young child to believe.

But there's still some nasty stuff in there about it.

Throw a couple out there, and lets see if I can hit them.

(January 26, 2016 at 4:43 pm)Vicki Q Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 4:37 am)robvalue Wrote: I would estimate that most of the mythology surrounding the Christian hell has been invented/stolen and isn't bible based. It doesn't really matter what the bible says, it matters what you can force a young child to believe.

But there's still some nasty stuff in there about it.

Throw a couple out there, and lets see if I can hit them.

Hell isn't  canon to the bible the bible hell it'self is ripped from zoroastrianism.
So.. yeah.. add the fact jesus died for  nothing because hell doesn't exist
and he kinda  nulled his own sacrifice since he came back to life.
Ergo Satan isn't bad since hell doesn't exist and there will be no
rapture since well there is no evil everything is fine we have free will
blah blah blah so there.

Quote:But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

(January 26, 2016 at 6:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

Quote:But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

lake of fire is still kinda hell

(January 26, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Vicki Q Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 4:22 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Jesus was a Pharisee.  He believed in all kinds of stuff that Sadducee Jews didn't believe in.

This is something of a departure from normal understanding. What evidence do you have for thinking Jesus was a Pharisee?

Jesus believed in angels, demons, spirits, ghosts, and resurrections.  The Pharisees believed in those things as well.  Therefore Jesus was a Pharisee.  The Sadducees thought that they were full of crap.

BTW, since Christians and muslims believe in those things they are also Pharisees.

Acts 23:8 (KJV) = "For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both."

The interesting thing about that verse is that it makes the entire Bible a Pharisee fairy tale and not a traditional (Sadducee) Jewish fairy tale.

This link tries to differentiate the various schools of thought:  http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...senes.html

(January 26, 2016 at 6:58 pm)dyresand Wrote: lake of fire is still kinda hell

They are completely different.

(January 26, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Vicki Q Wrote:

(January 26, 2016 at 4:22 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Jesus was a Pharisee.  He believed in all kinds of stuff that Sadducee Jews didn't believe in.

This is something of a departure from normal understanding. What evidence do you have for thinking Jesus was a Pharisee?

Well, the fact that the synoptic gospels giving him views on judaism which mirror phariseec thought is a big clue. Also is the fact that the latest, anti-semitic gospel of John which only really paints him as being against the pharisees. Actually it is far more logical to think of Yeshua as a cult leader of an anti-Rome pharisee or proto-sicarii group whose image got coopted into a new religion by others rather than a man believing himself son of god (the idea of god having a son was alien to all strands of judaism at that time, yet was prevalent amongst the Romano-Hellenistic cults).

You know when you spend all day shaking with fear behind a small brick wall because you're convinced there's a sniper on the roof across the street? And then the sniper eventually blows away in the wind, and you see it was actually a crisp packet all along?

That's what hell is like. That's what I imagine leaving religion is like.

(January 26, 2016 at 6:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

Quote:But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

Bible believing fundamentalists- please skip this post, as it's unsound and in error.


Revelation is Jewish apocalyptic writing, meaning that it's not to be read literally. It is a literary genre describing future real world events through imagery. An example of this would be Pharaoh and his cattle coming out of the Nile representing plenty then famine.


In short, this passage means something else. Plus it says they die, as opposed to live (in agony).