(January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am)Pizza Wrote: Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?

You are confusing the mental concept of self, and the mechanism that facilitates the concept.

Personal identity = thinking (I'm leaning towards this being the brain but it really doesn't matter to my point about dualistic views of the self being just thinking thing being sterile) + other parts of the body and behavior. Self = the vague whole.

(January 30, 2016 at 4:40 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am)Pizza Wrote: Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?

You are confusing the mental concept of self, and the mechanism that facilitates the concept.

What is false about this:

Quote: If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity.

(January 30, 2016 at 6:12 am)Rhythm Wrote: Dissatisfaction with the cogs and gears we see in biology combined with a desperate need to feel special? I doubt that dualist's give much thought to the "immaterial thinking thing" of parrots.

I guess the appeal is the assumed immortality of the "cause of the thinking." I get but I don't get it. What's it to the whole that one part of it is immortal? What's it to the body that the heart is still beating in a mad scientists lab?

As one might wonder what existence is to the mind in the absence of the senses.

I don't think you can ever separate the 2.
For a million years we've just wanted to sling shit from our trees and mate.
Our bodies are not life support for our "mind".
Mother nature doesn't have a master plan to one day make us brains in vats.

Who we are is still just the sum of our parts.
Every molecule in our body defines us.
Make the slightest change and you are a different entity.
Eg: identical twins are never identical, etc

Not worrying about being eaten by the next bigger carnivore gives us more time now think weird shit up...that's all.

No it's not just mind. It's a whole world, a reality. Your actions are all part of this reality, and your actions are all states of being that has inward reality to it. And you will be given a parable form that is closer to that reality in the next world and after death.

O God give me a majestic form in the next world that reflects light from your Light, and do not give me ugly form that reflects uncleanness from the darkness and chaotic ignorance and insolent disobedience.

O God forgive me the deeds that destroy the good deeds and inspire me with deeds that destroy the evil deeds indeed you are the Generous responding.

There is no doubt a Lord who reckons us. We are not just some idea we hold in our minds or an experience. Our deeds that we forget remain part of us, and the reckoning and judging of our souls is upon one who objectively perceives who we are and is up to him to increase us or decrease us.

MK! You are my rock of Gibraltar!
Your thoughts and passion for skydaddy are unwaivering!

He he.

Catch.

(January 30, 2016 at 10:07 am)ChadWooters Wrote: There are many kinds of dualists.

Indeed there are.



Boru

(January 30, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: An excellent relevant piece about what makes you, you. Pretty long, but interesting if you have the time.

Quote:When you say the word “me,” you probably feel pretty clear about what that means. It’s one of the things you’re clearest on in the whole world—something you’ve understood since you were a year old. You might be working on the question, “Who am I?” but what you’re figuring out is the who am part of the question—the I part is obvious. It’s just you. Easy.

But when you stop and actually think about it for a minute—about what “me” really boils down to at its core—things start to get pretty weird. Let’s give it a try:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html

Thanks.  I've enjoyed other articles on that site.  Just scanned it and will read it more closely soon.