Quote:Some people refuse to be persuaded. Have you seen some of the threads (and the arguments that ensued) started by theists on here?

We should try all the same, no matter how hopeless it seems at times.

Quote:No one single person or idea is going to convince everyone to agree and it is irrational to think otherwise.

I agree and never believed such a thing.

(February 1, 2016 at 8:41 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

Quote:Some people refuse to be persuaded. Have you seen some of the threads (and the arguments that ensued) started by theists on here?

We should try all the same, no matter how hopeless it seems at times.

Quote:No one single person or idea is going to convince everyone to agree and it is irrational to think otherwise.

I agree and never believed such a thing.

Then we can agree that it would be pointless to do anything on a massive scale, correct?

(February 1, 2016 at 8:43 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 8:41 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: We should try all the same, no matter how hopeless it seems at times.

I agree and never believed such a thing.

Then we can agree that it would be pointless to do anything on a massive scale, correct?

Unless we're talking about an organized effort to educate and talk to people about their beliefs, yes, I guess. Not sure why the words 'massive scale' should scare anyone. I think some of you are only reticent about antitheism to the extent that we shouldn't as a principle pursue religion the way some authoritarian regimes from the 20th century did, which is unthinkable and irrational in itself. I am only concerned with the wellbeing of humans, and with rationality as a means to pursue that overarching theme.

(February 1, 2016 at 8:11 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 8:07 am)Emjay Wrote: I have plenty of delusions - it's a side effect of how the emotional brain works - some of which I'm more mindful of than others, and some of which I use rational thinking to challenge and overcome and some of which I don't. But I only challenge them when I'm ready to, and that readiness comes from within. So I don't identify as a rationalist like Spock... I wouldn't want to be that because the emotional brain is just as beautiful in my eyes as the logical brain... and the two parts complement each other perfectly. So rationality is a means to correct delusions and without it we'd be confined to living them unchanged, as is presumably the case in the animal kingdom. But I don't see rationality alone as the be all and end all of human existence.

Here's the definition I was using:

rationalist - someone who believes that ideas and actions should be based on practical reasons and knowledge, rather than on emotions or religious beliefs

Do you still not consider yourself a rationalist, even by that definition? Do you perhaps think some ideas and actions should be based on emotions or religious beliefs? Could you give me any examples of such?

I don't know. Do you think I am? I guess I'd have to say I'm a half-rationalist. Not on religious beliefs, no, but on emotion yes. Intuition is one... that's relying on the 'fuzzy logic' of the brain... the ability to be informed that something doesn't quite fit the stored pattern. Stereotyping is an amazing ability of the brain and without it you wouldn't be able to infer that a lion could attack you if all you'd seen was a tiger. Bias, again allows for quick decisions and points you in the right direction... constraining the 'search space'. Emotions summarise activity over a wide area, and act as instant but non-specific indicators that there's something to be concerned about. Obviously these things can be put to good or bad use, but as features of the brain's working they are incredible, and we wouldn't be where we are and what we are without them. The important thing, I think, is understanding these mechanisms and being mindful of them and knowing whether they're being put to good or bad use, and using rationality to correct them if it's the latter case.

(February 1, 2016 at 8:51 am)Emjay Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 8:11 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Here's the definition I was using:

rationalist - someone who believes that ideas and actions should be based on practical reasons and knowledge, rather than on emotions or religious beliefs

Do you still not consider yourself a rationalist, even by that definition? Do you perhaps think some ideas and actions should be based on emotions or religious beliefs? Could you give me any examples of such?

I don't know. Do you think I am? I guess I'd have to say I'm a half-rationalist. Not on religious beliefs, no, but on emotion yes. Intuition is one... that's relying on the 'fuzzy logic' of the brain... the ability to be informed that something doesn't quite fit the stored pattern. Stereotyping is an amazing ability of the brain and without it you wouldn't be able to infer that a lion could attack you if all you'd seen was a tiger. Bias, again allows for quick decisions and points you in the right direction... constraining the 'search space'. Emotions summarise activity over a wide area, and act as instant but non-specific indicators that there's something to be concerned about. Obviously these things can be put to good or bad use, but as features of the brain's working they are incredible, and we wouldn't be where we are and what we are without them. The important thing, I think, is understanding these mechanisms and being mindful of them and knowing whether they're being put to good or bad use, and using rationality to correct them if it's the latter case.

You just described yourself as a rationalist. Everyone is a rationalist, to some extent. It matters however whether you really think of yourself as such or not - it can say a ton about you.

(February 1, 2016 at 8:56 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 8:51 am)Emjay Wrote: I don't know. Do you think I am? I guess I'd have to say I'm a half-rationalist. Not on religious beliefs, no, but on emotion yes. Intuition is one... that's relying on the 'fuzzy logic' of the brain... the ability to be informed that something doesn't quite fit the stored pattern. Stereotyping is an amazing ability of the brain and without it you wouldn't be able to infer that a lion could attack you if all you'd seen was a tiger. Bias, again allows for quick decisions and points you in the right direction... constraining the 'search space'. Emotions summarise activity over a wide area, and act as instant but non-specific indicators that there's something to be concerned about. Obviously these things can be put to good or bad use, but as features of the brain's working they are incredible, and we wouldn't be where we are and what we are without them. The important thing, I think, is understanding these mechanisms and being mindful of them and knowing whether they're being put to good or bad use, and using rationality to correct them if it's the latter case.

You just described yourself as a rationalist. Everyone is a rationalist, to some extent. It matters however whether you really think of yourself as such or not - it can say a ton about you.

Okay, rationalist it is then. Just not a full-time one. I can get caught up in my delusions, as you well know from playing Mafia with me. And with smoking I can go months without paying deliberate, rational, attention to the warnings on the packet. I am an emotional person but I reflect and 'introspect' a lot and try to understand myself and better myself. So I don't know - what's the ton it says about me?

(February 1, 2016 at 9:15 am)Emjay Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 8:56 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: You just described yourself as a rationalist. Everyone is a rationalist, to some extent. It matters however whether you really think of yourself as such or not - it can say a ton about you.

Okay, rationalist it is then. Just not a full-time one. I can get caught up in my delusions, as you well know from playing Mafia with me. And with smoking I can go months without paying deliberate, rational, attention to the warnings on the packet. I am an emotional person but I reflect and 'introspect' a lot and try to understand myself and better myself. So I don't know - what's the ton it says about me?

Well, just that. Whether you appreciate the value of rationality or not. Everything you described as good concerning our mental faculties you did so by applying logic, therefore you are a rationalist no matter what, and so is everyone else. But understading this and being able to determine in that way what is good for you and what isn't makes all the difference in the world. I am not necessarily saying being a rationalist means being perfect. It means you're willing to improve, if anything.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:10 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:07 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: I'm paraphrasing what I hear you saying.  Ever wonder how people take what you say?  There you go.

OP's decide what you're going to talk about(which is exactly what I said). Not how you do it. This is an important distinction, one you admitedly overlooked. How is this paraphrasing me and not misquoting? Where do we draw the line? Is english not your first language, or something?

That must be it.  

(February 1, 2016 at 4:40 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:39 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: That's just it, EP. You telling someone else to stay on topic is 1) attempting to moderate other users and 2) implying that there is a topic to be adhered to.

I don't agree and why should I care for your opinion?
I'll tell people what I want this thread to be like all I want. If you don't like it, that's too bad.

Now, please, take your whining elsewhere. People are trying to discuss about something other than me for a change.

Fuck you EP.  The fucking cunt is moderating a moderator.  Go straight to hell you slimy little worm.  

You're back on ignore and I intend to celebrate when your stupid ass if finally perma-banned.

(February 1, 2016 at 11:49 am)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:40 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: I don't agree and why should I care for your opinion?
I'll tell people what I want this thread to be like all I want. If you don't like it, that's too bad.

Now, please, take your whining elsewhere. People are trying to discuss about something other than me for a change.

Fuck you EP.  The fucking cunt is moderating a moderator.  Go straight to hell you slimy little worm.  

You're back on ignore and I intend to celebrate when your stupid ass if finally perma-banned.

He wasn't moderating in that instance, as far as I know. He was merely conversing with me. And he told me I was whining first, I merely reciprocated.

I think you are overreacting.