(February 8, 2016 at 12:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: Does someone become a catholic because they already feel this way about gays, or are they required to feel this way because they have become Catholic?

Same goes for all the other doctrines.

Someone becomes a Catholic because he or she believes that it is the Church founded upon Simon Peter when Jesus said, "You are Peter and upon this rock, I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." (Mt. 16:18-19)

(February 8, 2016 at 12:18 pm)Divinity Wrote: I think the Church decides what their position is.  If the church says jump, they say 'how high'.  Apparently the church is okay with Pedophilia, but not gay marriage.

I think you are ignorant of Catholicism.

(February 8, 2016 at 3:31 pm)Divinity Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As for homosexual activity, yes, a practicing/devout Catholic should adhere to official Church doctrines regarding faith and morals, and that includes Church teaching on human sexuality - in which we believe sex is reserved for husband and wife. 

*Also reserved for priests and their 12 year old altar boys.

All of them? Every single priest in the entire world (numbering over 400,000) is a pedophile?

And if this is the case, why is it that Catholic parents permit their sons to serve as altar boys? Are all two billion Catholics complicit in a massive sex-ring?

You are an idiot. Kinda funny in a sad sort of way. 

(February 9, 2016 at 12:22 pm)athrock Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 12:18 pm)Divinity Wrote: I think the Church decides what their position is.  If the church says jump, they say 'how high'.  Apparently the church is okay with Pedophilia, but not gay marriage.

I think you are ignorant of Catholicism.

I just think you're ignorant.

hey ho.

(February 9, 2016 at 11:51 am)athrock Wrote: I don't think you know Jesus Christ or His Catholic Church at all. 

And you choose not to see.

So, I know it's a really easy response that doesn't require you to think critically or engage with the things I've said before, but "you don't know what you're talking about" is not a refutation. It's a fiat dismissal based on nothing but your unwillingness to consider what's being said.

You can go that way if you want, but I'm not required to treat your sneering condescension as anything other than what it is: a full fledged retreat from the argument.

(February 9, 2016 at 12:25 pm)athrock Wrote: All of them? Every single priest in the entire world (numbering over 400,000) is a pedophile?

And if this is the case, why is it that Catholic parents permit their sons to serve as altar boys? Are all two billion Catholics complicit in a massive sex-ring?

You are an idiot. Kinda funny in a sad sort of way. 

You can't be this fucking stupid and still know how to breathe.  I know you lack the reading comprehension to understand anything.  So I'll put it simple:

You're goddamned fucking church protects the Pedophile Priests.  Not all priests are raping little boys and little girls, but a number of them are.  By protecting those child rapists, the church is endorsing pedophilia.  You don't see the outcry from Catholics either.  No.  instead they go against gay marriage and gay adoption.  Because as we all know gay marriage is worse than child rape.  At least according to the Catholics.

You're a brainless maggot who'll defend his church to the last.  "ALL PRIESTS AREN'T PEDOPHILES WHO RAPE LITTLE CHILDREN!"  Congratulations on that, I guess.  Crowning achievement.  Fuck your pope, fuck your Jesus, and fuck you.

(February 8, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Divinity Wrote: It doesn't matter if it has nothing to do with the theology.  If they can turn a blind eye to their priests raping children, then they don't get the goddamn right to tell people homosexual activity is wrong.  They give up that fucking right when they turn a blind eye to child rape.  They lose the moral high ground.  They're somewhere between "scum of the earth" and "lower than maggots"  The theology is abso-fucking-lutely worthless when people raised in it and who moved up in the ranks of it allow child rapists to escape justice so they can protect their goddamned church.  

They're fucking hypocrite bigots, and nothing more.

Or just sinful humans. Like everyone else.

Howerver, as has been pointed out in this forum previously (meaning you already know this), the Catholic Church has a lower rate of pedophilia than other institutions (like the public school system, the Boy Scouts, swim teams, etc.) AND these other institutions have ALSO moved people around and tried to hide the problems.

So, hypocrisy also applies to those who, like you, go ape-shit when the Catholic Church is involved simply because it bugs the hell out of your that the Church has taken a stand against the sin of homosexuality which affects your own daughter.

Ironically, while you THINK you're protecting her (and what loving parent wouldn't so props to you) by telling her that it's perfectly okay for her to engage in sex with her lesbian lover(s), in fact, you may be condemning her to eternal separation from God by fostering her belief in a lifestyle that God hates.

(My own take is that God may be merciful since He knows that you are clueless, but that's just me - I'm an optimist.)

So, call me a homophobe. A hater. Or worse. I am unfazed.

I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I didn't speak the truth.

(February 8, 2016 at 4:57 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 3:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You are entitled to your opinion, of course. No one here is forcing you to believe anything different about sex, especially not me. And I'm sure your daughter is lovely.

No, your side isn't forcing us to change our beliefs, but that's mostly because they don't care what we believe. What they are doing is trying to force submission to their beliefs, your beliefs, because that control has always been the true aim here.

You can't actually use the "nobody's forcing you to be homophobic" line when your side is actually attempting to force gay people into celibacy, to force their beliefs into law, and to force the law to bend to accommodate their bigotry at the expense of gay and straight couples alike. To say that nobody here is trying to force their beliefs onto us both severely misunderstands the criticism being leveled (which was at god and the religion promulgating those beliefs, not at you personally) and is also little more than a distraction from that criticism. You want to point to the fact that your religion hasn't yet found a way of preventing thoughtcrime through brainwashing (gee, what a huge act of charity on their part) while sweeping under the rug the many, many ways that they're trying to accomplish the thing we're actually objecting to through force of law.

Sorry, I'm not going to play that pretend game with you, no matter how genteel you are in phrasing it. You're a nice person, I don't like having to do this, but the way you skirt around issues like this really bugs me. It must be real nice to be able to make such flowery sentiments and genuinely mean them, but unfortunately guys like me, guys that your church has as its official doctrine are disordered and sinful, don't get that luxury. I have to live in the real world, where I and those like me are harangued, discriminated against, and assaulted, but I don't have to play along with you when you turn a blind eye to all that with these simpering "oh, it's all just opinion, I don't expect you to agree with me..." nothings.

It's cool that you're not forcing me to believe as you do. But don't try to tell me, for a moment, that those beliefs you hold aren't backed up by a multitude of people both powerful and otherwise who are willing to use every means at their disposal to force me to submit to those beliefs anyway.

Quote:I understand that having my views regarding gay sex is pretty much the worst sin around these forums. But I'm not going to lie about my beliefs.

I'm not going to ask you to lie, but I am going to ask you why you hold those beliefs, and why you feel compelled to ignore the very real suffering inflicted on behalf of those beliefs.

No one in the Catholic Church is forcing ANYONE to be celibate. What the Church IS doing is trying to help those who are homosexual find a path toward God that will result in eternal life.

athrock Wrote:Howerver, as has been pointed out in this forum previously (meaning you already know this), the Catholic Church has a lower rate of pedophilia than other institutions (like the public school system, the Boy Scouts, swim teams, etc.) AND these other institutions have ALSO moved people around and tried to hide the problems.

Source? Other institutions have similar problems, but I'm interested in knowing what study determined that the rate is lower in the RCC.

And those other institutions don't claim to represent God on Earth.

(February 9, 2016 at 12:38 pm)athrock Wrote: Or just sinful humans. Like everyone else.

Howerver, as has been pointed out in this forum previously (meaning you already know this), the Catholic Church has a lower rate of pedophilia than other institutions (like the public school system, the Boy Scouts, swim teams, etc.) AND these other institutions have ALSO moved people around and tried to hide the problems.

So, hypocrisy also applies to those who, like you, go ape-shit when the Catholic Church is involved simply because it bugs the hell out of your that the Church has taken a stand against the sin of homosexuality which affects your own daughter.

Ironically, while you THINK you're protecting her (and what loving parent wouldn't so props to you) by telling her that it's perfectly okay for her to engage in sex with her lesbian lover(s), in fact, you may be condemning her to eternal separation from God by fostering her belief in a lifestyle that God hates.

(My own take is that God may be merciful since He knows that you are clueless, but that's just me - I'm an optimist.)

So, call me a homophobe. A hater. Or worse. I am unfazed.

I wouldn't be doing you any favors if I didn't speak the truth.

Like I said.  Fuck you, and fuck your stupid god.  If your god exists and is going to send my daughter to hell, he better send you to hell too.  Because my daughter is a million times the person you are.  A billion times.  She's better than you could ever be.  In fact she's a trillion times better than you are.  And if that's the kind of god your god is, then I bet your Jesus is a child molester himself.  I bet your Jesus probably fucked little kids.  I bet your Jesus was a pedophile just like the priests your Catholic church protects.  That's probably why they protect them.  Jesus was a pedophile.