(February 20, 2016 at 11:25 am)abaris Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 11:22 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Wherever you live, your home country is a disgrace. And a pleasant surprise. And all things in between. Name calling reflects on the speaker, not the target.

The main question seems to be, what policy you country persues and how it influences the rest of the world. Quite naturally, as I said, the impact of the US fucking up is bigger.

Well, if you focus solely on the errors anything would seem to be riddled with them.

(February 20, 2016 at 11:55 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Well, if you focus solely on the errors anything would seem to be riddled with them.

Point is, errors have a bigger impact. Or conscious fuckups, such as the Iraq disaster.

(February 20, 2016 at 11:58 am)abaris Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 11:55 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: Well, if you focus solely on the errors anything would seem to be riddled with them.

Point is, errors have a bigger impact. Or conscious fuckups, such as the Iraq disaster.

I guess we should just be smaller then?

(February 20, 2016 at 12:06 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: I guess we should just be smaller then?

In some aspects, yes. Smaller, as in one crashing bank not taking the whole world economy with it. Smaller, as in less military interventions.

(February 20, 2016 at 11:19 am)paulpablo Wrote: EP there was no argument, or strawman argument.  The thread got to the point where a conversation about where people would rather live had arisen, then someone explained they would rather live in America than a lot of other places in the world even though it isn't perfect.

You made a strawman argument by saying the world isn't divided between hellish countries and the USA, which no one said was the case to begin with.

You're basically saying hey your statement is too simplistic so I'm going to purposefully misinterpret it to mean things you never said, claim you were arguing about something you weren't, then argue against the points you never made.

No, I didn't. I just stated my opinion on the matter, same as her. I never said she made that argument. If I'm to be accused of anything its of wrongly accusing her of the same.

No, I'm not saying that. Now look who's straw manning me. So you're going to call me out on something only to do it yourself not two seconds later? So, then, make your mind about it. Is it O.K. to do it or not?

(February 20, 2016 at 10:29 am)Evie Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 10:02 am)Nymphadora Wrote: I wasn't. Perhaps you should stop having more dick in your personality than what is presumably in your pants and quit putting words in other people's mouths.

EP, unintentionally or not, it was you making a strawman because you suggested she implied things she didn't even after she clarified that she didn't.

One doesn't make a straw man argument simply by saying " I get the feeling that you're saying this, if so then...". One makes a straw man by deliberately arguing against something one knows wasn't brought up by the other side and wanting to win the debate in that way. As it is, I added a caveat that clearly shows while I wasn't sure what she was saying, if she was saying X then I'm going to say Y. If not, it simply doesn't concern her.

(February 20, 2016 at 10:02 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 9:56 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Stop making straw man arguments then.

I wasn't. Perhaps you should stop having more dick in your personality than what is presumably in your pants and quit putting words in other people's mouths.

What a pathetic attempt at an ad hominem. It doesn't surprise me. Stupid people resort to low tactics.

(February 20, 2016 at 11:19 am)paulpablo Wrote: EP there was no argument, or strawman argument.  The thread got to the point where a conversation about where people would rather live had arisen, then someone explained they would rather live in America than a lot of other places in the world even though it isn't perfect.

You made a strawman argument by saying the world isn't divided between hellish countries and the USA, which no one said was the case to begin with.

You're basically saying hey your statement is too simplistic so I'm going to purposefully misinterpret it to mean things you never said, claim you were arguing about something you weren't, then argue against the points you never made.

Her statement was too simplistic. If I'm to be accused of thinking higher of my fellow humans than I should, then I'll gladly take that charge, in the hope that my high expectations will eventually be rewarded.

(February 20, 2016 at 12:18 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 12:06 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: I guess we should just be smaller then?

In some aspects, yes. Smaller, as in one crashing bank not taking the whole world economy with it. Smaller, as in less military interventions.

The world doesn't have to do business with our banks, they do so out of profit motive. 

As for interventions, there are people who say we're assholes for not intervening elsewhere. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

(February 20, 2016 at 12:31 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Back in the early 80ies, I didn't participate in the peace marches because they didn't include the Soviets but only the Americans in their to blame list. Today I consider most interventions to be bad. Most, but not all. I would be hard pressed to name even a single American intervention after WWII to be justified. Not even against former Yugoslavia in 1999, since the Kosovarian UCK was as much at fault as the Serbian forces. I didn't endorse European NATO intervention back then either.

Most US interventions were driven by interests, or, as you say, by global pressure to intervene. The US didn't have any real interests in Kosovo.