(February 25, 2016 at 7:41 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Either God constitutes an arbitrary standard for morals on this view, a divine "might makes right" answer to the problem, or it solves nothing and we're left still in search of the actual standards of morality, which even God must abide by.

God commands it because it is good ("love thy neighbor"), or it is good because God commands it ("kill all infidels").  How about this one, CL:

Quote:Condemned Error:  773  33. That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.

http://patristica.net/denzinger/

He's like a man sawing off the branch he's sitting on. First he argues that neither evolution, reason, or conscience, can explain an objective moral standard. And they can't. But I see no evidence that there an objective moral standard to explain. Until an objective moral standard is demonstrated, it's a losing argument. Worse, his explanation of how reason, evolution, and conscience fail is pretty good evidence that morality is subjective. So if objective morality is what we'd expect to find if there were a god, his dismantling of the concept is evidence that the particular god concept he proposes does not exist.

(February 25, 2016 at 9:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Rape

But your god condones rape.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. -- Numbers 31:15-18

Quote:theft

Slavery is the ultimate form of theft. It takes everything a person has. See below.

Quote:killing of an innocent person

Surely the infants and sucklings were innocent.

“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” (I Samuel 15:2-3)

Quote:adultery

But god gave multiple wives to David.

"And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."
2 Samuel 12:8.

Quote:slavery

God condones slavery.

"'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Leviticus chapter 25 verse 44:46

Quote:to name a few.

There are many examples of God condoning and ordering the acts of immoral things.

If morals are objective, how can God bend the rules? If he bends the rules then that makes them subjective.

God only condones those things to a person who takes a completely literal interpretation of the OT and completely ignores the teachings of Christ in the New Testament. This is not Catholicism.

(February 25, 2016 at 10:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: God only condones those things to a person who takes a completely literal interpretation of the OT and completely ignores the teachings of Christ in the New Testament. This is not Catholicism.

In other words god evolved from ot to nt thus proving no objective morality

(February 25, 2016 at 9:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 25, 2016 at 7:49 pm)KUSA Wrote: It is an interesting issue to discuss. Could you please answer this?

What are some examples of what you consider immoral? This should be based on your beliefs as a Christian.

Rape, theft, killing of an innocent person, adultery, slavery.... to name a few.

But there are societies that have found all of those things moral. Right now there are places in the world where the punishment for crimes is to have your sister or daughter raped. https://news.vice.com/article/global-out...-gang-rape Rome'so founding myth includes the rape of the Sabine women which is portrayed as a good and clever thing. Many societies punish women for rape. Killing the children of criminals, enemy nations, and exposing infants to the elements are all old and venerable traditions. Slavery is acceptable in both the Old and New Testiments. In the American South it was not only considered moral to have slaves, but imoral for those slaves to run away. So where is this objective standard?

No. God didn't change. Our understanding of Him changed. Particularly when Jesus came and contradicted a bunch of stuff in the OT. Personally I don't believe in the literal interpretation of any OT stories.

(February 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No. God didn't change. Our understanding of Him changed. Particularly when Jesus came and contradicted a bunch of stuff in the OT. Personally I don't believe in the literal interpretation of any OT stories.

In which case you are asserting that there is an objective standard, but that we don't know what that standard is? If so, how do we know there is an objective standard?

Edit.

(February 25, 2016 at 10:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(February 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No. God didn't change. Our understanding of Him changed. Particularly when Jesus came and contradicted a bunch of stuff in the OT. Personally I don't believe in the literal interpretation of any OT stories.

In which case you are asserting that there is an objective standard, but that we don't know what that standard is? If so, how do we know there is an objective standard?

You stole my thunder. That's exactly where I was going with this.