Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

(February 27, 2016 at 8:32 am)robvalue Wrote: Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

Because it's our fault that he murders us for not accepting his love.

(February 27, 2016 at 12:20 pm)Old Baby Wrote:

(February 27, 2016 at 8:32 am)robvalue Wrote: Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

Because it's our fault that he murders us for not accepting his love.

There's that, and it seems like they want to impress us with his power.  "My god wiped out almost all life on earth.  You'd best start believing!"

(February 27, 2016 at 8:32 am)robvalue Wrote: Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

Best they can do in the corner they have painted themselves into?

(February 27, 2016 at 1:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(February 27, 2016 at 8:32 am)robvalue Wrote: Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

Best they can do in the corner they have painted themselves into?

That's really what it boils down to... cultural values have changed. YHWH evolved from El as an attempt to manufacture a more-powerful god for the Israelites at a time when power was a treasured value for such a being. But they stepped over the line in terms of celebrating the brutality of this god, since of course they couldn't have known there'd ever be a time when women would become valued as equals, genocide would be frowned upon, etc.

Edit to Add: It dawns on me that this may have been the primary motivation for the reforms of guys like Paul, in trying to reconcile the brutal war-god of the ancient Hebrews with the Hellenic values he picked up, growing up as a Jewish Roman in a Greek-populated area. The entire New Testament boils down to trying to make those two competing value-sets work harmoniously, with obvious success... since people like us pointing out the clash seems to have no effect upon the believers.

The more stupid contradictions the better, it seems.

(February 27, 2016 at 1:36 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Edit to Add: It dawns on me that this may have been the primary motivation for the reforms of guys like Paul, in trying to reconcile the brutal war-god of the ancient Hebrews with the Hellenic values he picked up, growing up as a Jewish Roman in a Greek-populated area. The entire New Testament boils down to trying to make those two competing value-sets work harmoniously, with obvious success... since people like us pointing out the clash seems to have no effect upon the believers.

That's a very good point. That might also explain the unusual success of the Christ narrative, in that it was appealing to Hellenistic Jews. But what in particular of the narrative is specifically Hellenistic?

Quote:Edit to Add: It dawns on me that this may have been the primary motivation for the reforms of guys like Paul,

"Paul" was probably a creation of Marcion who considered yhwh to be a second string inferior god compared to his boy, jesus.

(February 27, 2016 at 2:26 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(February 27, 2016 at 1:36 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Edit to Add: It dawns on me that this may have been the primary motivation for the reforms of guys like Paul, in trying to reconcile the brutal war-god of the ancient Hebrews with the Hellenic values he picked up, growing up as a Jewish Roman in a Greek-populated area. The entire New Testament boils down to trying to make those two competing value-sets work harmoniously, with obvious success... since people like us pointing out the clash seems to have no effect upon the believers.

That's a very good point.  That might also explain the unusual success of the Christ narrative, in that it was appealing to Hellenistic Jews.  But what in particular of the narrative is specifically Hellenistic?

It's not that the narrative is Hellenistic; it's that the influence of Hellenistic thought on culture (which the Romans emulated, after conquering the territories formerly occupied by Alexander the Great and his follow-ons) meant that the old Hebraic value-set was already an anachronism and needed to be moderated-- for instance, the eating of pork. It's pretty clear to me that Paul's goal was to fight the Hellenisation of Jews exposed to that culture, which is why we have all his railing against their religious practices. I'd venture to say that 75% of the Bible is written to give the Jews a sense of identity and prevent assimilation into the various cultures that dominated them.

Strangely enough, in her follow-on book to Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman's Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia called Committed: A Skeptic Makes Peace with Marriage, author Elizabeth Gilbert goes into a fair amount of detail about the differences in Hellenistic and Hebraic (which the Christians call "Biblical") philosophical outlooks. I was all but forced to read it, but I actually enjoyed it a great deal.

(February 27, 2016 at 8:32 am)robvalue Wrote: Why are Christians trying to convince us that their benevolent master really did drown everyone and everything in a fit of murderous rage at his own incompetence?

Because when you've got absolutely no proof of the existence of your favourite sky fairy, then you'll take anything at all as proof of his interaction with this world.
Good, bad? who cares! Look! my God is real! He is!?