(March 8, 2016 at 9:22 am)Mamacita Wrote:

(March 8, 2016 at 1:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No kidding. Try being accused of defending rape. Then you'll really know what it's like to feel sick.

Really? CL, try knowing someone who has been raped the you will really know what it's like to feel sick. You're defending a cruel god. I'm on the side of someone I know who was actually raped and is currently struggling with everything that comes after. But you have it so hard. Excuse me. I'm out.

My cousin who I grew up with and was like a brother to me, was kidnapped and raped by a homeless man when he was 12. Now I'm being accused of defending rape by multiple people at once.  

Rest assured, I do know what it's like to feel sick.

Thank you Mister Agenda, Whateverist, Ryantology, Judi Lynn, and Abaris. I appreciate it more than you know.

(March 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I doubt than many find enduring rape to be all that troubling...excusing it or anyone's complicity in it, however.....regardless of the grounds or reasons...another story.

Which, again, is not what I'm doing.

(March 8, 2016 at 2:46 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(March 8, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I doubt than many find enduring rape to be all that troubling...excusing it or anyone's complicity in it, however.....regardless of the grounds or reasons...another story.

I don't think that's exactly what she's doing, though. More like, rape is a really terrible thing and God wouldn't allow it unless there was some terrible consequence in disallowing it (which I guess would be the free will argument). I don't agree with that line of reasoning obviously, because an omnipredicated being should necessarily face no limits in how they construct reality, but I don't think it equates to "rape is okay" either.

It's not. Not just "not exactly" what I'm doing.... More like "not at all" what I'm doing.

(March 8, 2016 at 2:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Excusing rape doesn't have to involve, nor have I ever claimed that it did involve, claiming that rape is okay.  Only that it is excusable, or that complicity in it is excusable.  

It's an objectively bad thing™ and people who are engaged in it or complicit to it are bad people™....I'm wholly against it and them...except when.. [fill in this shitty blank with nonsense of your own choosing].  Some fun examples include;

"my god is involved"
"it's part of a plan"
"it benefits us, somehow, to have it included"

I am always against it. I have made that clear. That's exactly what it means to say something is objectively immoral... it means it is always evil and NEVER excusable, for anyone, under any circumstances... no matter who, what, where, when, why, how.

Here's a question:

According to some, God gave us free will. But what about those who have had our Free-Will overridden? Those who have mental illnesses? Why would God allow that? I mean consider for a moment that some people with mental illnesses have committed some horrible crimes. Even if God wouldn't hold them accountable, he does nothing to stop them despite them not acting of their own free will.

And what about Natural disasters ripping apart homes and families?

Not to mention diseases inflicted upon children.

(March 8, 2016 at 7:02 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Here's a question:

According to some, God gave us free will.  But what about those who have had our Free-Will overridden?  Those who have mental illnesses?  Why would God allow that?  I mean consider for a moment that some people with mental illnesses have committed some horrible crimes.  Even if God wouldn't hold them accountable, he does nothing to stop them despite them not acting of their own free will.  

And what about Natural disasters ripping apart homes and families?  

Not to mention diseases inflicted upon children.

I believe God allows nature to take its course. He does not micromanage the world.

Why? I do not know. I am not God, and I'm ok with that.

(March 8, 2016 at 7:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe God allows nature to take its course. He does not micromanage the world.

Why? I do not know. I am not God, and I'm ok with that.

And what about Mental Illness?

Also: He wouldn't need to micromanage it if he created a world in which natural disasters simply didn't happen.

(March 8, 2016 at 7:09 pm)Cecelia Wrote:

(March 8, 2016 at 7:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I believe God allows nature to take its course. He does not micromanage the world.

Why? I do not know. I am not God, and I'm ok with that.

And what about Mental Illness?

Falls under the same umbrella. Mental illness is a result of natural causes.

(March 8, 2016 at 7:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Falls under the same umbrella. Mental illness is a result of natural causes.

But it overrides free will.  Why would God create something like mental illness that overrides a person's free will and causes them to do terrible things? Like shooting up a theater, or an elementary school?

I mean he either created it, or it came about as a result of his creation and he did nothing to stop it (this of course goes by the argument that he does exist.  As Jules Renard said, it'd be much better for his reputation if he does not exist)

Can we really say that these things are objectively moral?  Allowing these things to happen?  If they aren't objectively moral, then how can objective morality come from someone who isn't objectively moral themselves?  If it IS objectively moral, then how is it objectively moral?  Simply because it's what God wants?  That's actually subjective morality.  Because it's subjective to "God's" will.