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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 1:36 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2016 at 1:37 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(March 12, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What we believe is that an act can be objectively wrong, in and of itself. Like, killing innocent people for example.
Because it's anti-social behavior. Why can't you just leave it at that? The objective facts don't make an act any less wrong than your highly questionable objective morality.
Take out all the woo-woo teachings, teach in their place the facts which establish social and anti-social behavior, and you get the same results toward the end of improving society and mitigating violence.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 1:47 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 1:35 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 1:23 pm)IATIA Wrote: That is still 'subjective' morality. The example is based on the "innocence" of the victim. "Innocent" by whose standard? Subjective.
The issue is subjective and objective sometimes intertwine or at least subjectivity is very much related to the objectivity sometimes.
Nope. Not until objective morals a proven to exist.
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Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 1:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 12, 2016 at 1:55 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(March 12, 2016 at 12:25 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Very understandable. Since you don't believe in God, objective morality doesn't really make sense.
Yes, I thought when I disbelieved in God, I would be able to believe in objective praise/morality somehow. I couldn't. And I realized I could not truthfully have subjective praise without belief in objective praise.
I went through a crisis. I didn't want to believe in God simply because I wanted to. I had to know him to be true. The dark night of my soul was distressing.
Brainwashing is a tough thing to break, and many have experienced enough pain from it that it really should be prohibited with children, who would be much less susceptible to it as adults. There is also the problem of consent. Anyway, the distress which it causes in those who try and escape it is why so many fail, later in their adult lives.
Brainwashing is objectively anti-social.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:18 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 1:23 pm)IATIA Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What we believe is that an act can be objectively wrong, in and of itself. Like, killing innocent people for example.
That is still 'subjective' morality. The example is based on the "innocence" of the victim. "Innocent" by whose standard? Subjective.
I agree, how can something be objectively wrong or right, when right and wrong are subjective concepts. What scale of rightness and wrongness is being used to measure these actions, if as human beings we are setting up this scale then morality is subjective. If god says what is right and wrong then we are not talking about objective morality, we are talking about divine command theory.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:18 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 1:23 pm)IATIA Wrote: That is still 'subjective' morality. The example is based on the "innocence" of the victim. "Innocent" by whose standard? Subjective.
I agree, how can something be objectively wrong or right, when right and wrong are subjective concepts. What scale of rightness and wrongness is being used to measure these actions, if as human beings we are setting up this scale then morality is subjective. If god says what is right and wrong then we are not talking about objective morality, we are talking about divine command theory.
And can you think of anything else that is possible? Is it really this or that? Think.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:22 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 2:18 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: I agree, how can something be objectively wrong or right, when right and wrong are subjective concepts. What scale of rightness and wrongness is being used to measure these actions, if as human beings we are setting up this scale then morality is subjective. If god says what is right and wrong then we are not talking about objective morality, we are talking about divine command theory.
And can you think of anything else that is possible? Is it really this or that? Think.
No I cant think of anything else that is possible unless you can show me a scale of right/wrong that is completely objective.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 2:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: And can you think of anything else that is possible? Is it really this or that? Think.
No I cant think of anything else that is possible unless you can show me a scale of right/wrong that is completely objective.
You can think of something different and possible. You just have to try.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:44 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: No I cant think of anything else that is possible unless you can show me a scale of right/wrong that is completely objective.
You can think of something different and possible. You just have to try.
Are you about to make some kind of point?
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:46 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:44 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You can think of something different and possible. You just have to try.
Are you about to make some kind of point?
You know I've stated alternative view. But it seems only Theists understand this alternative view. It seems you guys don't get what I'm saying. At least this is what a lot of you are claiming.
So I'm encouraging you to think yourself. Perhaps through you thinking and reflecting, you will open doors of knowledge. It's up to you.
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RE: My views on objective morality
March 12, 2016 at 2:53 pm
(March 12, 2016 at 2:46 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (March 12, 2016 at 2:44 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: Are you about to make some kind of point?
You know I've stated alternative view. But it seems only Theists understand this alternative view. It seems you guys don't get what I'm saying. At least this is what a lot of you are claiming.
So I'm encouraging you to think yourself. Perhaps through you thinking and reflecting, you will open doors of knowledge. It's up to you.
What alternative? In order to say something is objectively right or wrong there has to be an objective measurement of right and wrong.
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