(March 12, 2016 at 5:24 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

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(March 12, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Oh, the irony...

It seems the coward has nothing to say, I'd at least have a modicum of respect if he owned up to his mistake.

Like I always tell you atheists, if you fail to accept that you're wrong and change your way of thinking on something as simple as the usage of a word, which is easily proven by looking in a dictionary; do you honestly believe you have the capacity for accepting God, even if it was proven to you?

"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" - Luke 16:31

And as people have said thousands of times in this forum, if there was PROOF of god, I would readily accept the existence of god.  If god actually was worthy of worship (unlike the asshole described in your wholly babble), I might even end up worshipping.  But a LOT of proof would have to be given first.  Scientific, measurable proof.  

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So what you're saying is that you appeal to your god science, to guide how you think and are unable to form your own opinion based upon your own observations?

(March 12, 2016 at 3:13 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Clearly the people in the emboldened part weren't religious, or else why are they acting surprised when they are about to be let into heaven? Now this wouldn't be the case for those that heard the gospel and rejected it, it's for those that never had the opportunity to hear the gospel yet were good people. Hence the separation of the sheep from the goats; in other words the good from the bad.

*my bold*

We aren't talking about those that have never heard the gospel though, are we? The subject was indoctrination of young children, and my alternate point was that Christians don't teach their young or their congregations that you can enter heaven through good works alone. If you're one of the Christians that believes the unsaved who have never heard "the word", then that's fine. It's completely beside the point though. 

Quote:Moral of the story? Love everyone, that's the best lesson you can teach a child.

Quote:Hebrews 13
2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

I don't necessarily disagree, with the addition of teaching your children the qualities of those undeserving of their love (abusive folk and their like).

(March 12, 2016 at 8:57 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(March 12, 2016 at 8:53 am)Godschild Wrote:

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By your reasoning teaching evolution to children is indoctrination. As for your view of God being imaginary, dark energy and dark matter have been tested for for over 40 years and no evidence has ever been found, yet it is taught as fact, why do you acept these things with no proof yet not God???

GC

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Evolution and DM/DE are based on actual evidence and theoretical inference (like the Higgs Boson) respectively though. How are they the same to an unevidenced non-descript 'god' which everyone seems to have a different view/opinion of?

I'm not sure that people teach the latter necessarily as fact, though. I thought it was more, again, as an inference based on the theoretical and mathematical paradigms that seek to explain the rather large unknown in mass/energy that exists which cannot be accounted for using 'physical' matter?

There is no evidence for DM/DE just theoretical math that can be very much wrong, the math is based on ideas (unproven ideas) so it has no real basis. There is no evidence that any one species has evolved into another, so evolution is nothing than speculation and yes all three are taught as fact, which in my book is nothing but lying.

The Bible is a spiritual resource that gives a person spiritual evidence and the scriptures say it is each individuals choice, accepting God is not something that can be forced. Yes I know some parents and other people try to do that, I've witnessed it happening, however the scriptures say that one can't be forced to believe, it is as the Bible says a choice through free will. People who try this tactic do not understand what the scriptures say about freedom of choice, regrettably. Many people want scripture to say what they believe is true instead of seeking the real truth from them.

GC

There is plenty of evidence of one species turning into another, over time. But being a different species does not mean being completely different. It is to do with their ability to interbreed. If you're saying there's no evidence an animal gives birth to a completely different animal, then you are right. But no one is claiming this is the case.

Very similar animals can be of a different species. It's not based on visual appraisals. Evolution is about very small changes over time. Over many, many, many changes of species we eventually get something that looks obviously very different even to the untrained eye.

(March 12, 2016 at 9:34 pm)Bob Kelso Wrote:

(March 12, 2016 at 3:13 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Clearly the people in the emboldened part weren't religious, or else why are they acting surprised when they are about to be let into heaven? Now this wouldn't be the case for those that heard the gospel and rejected it, it's for those that never had the opportunity to hear the gospel yet were good people. Hence the separation of the sheep from the goats; in other words the good from the bad.

*my bold*

We aren't talking about those that have never heard the gospel though, are we? The subject was indoctrination of young children, and my alternate point was that Christians don't teach their young or their congregations that you can enter heaven through good works alone. If you're one of the Christians that believes the unsaved who have never heard "the word", then that's fine. It's completely beside the point though. 

Quote:Moral of the story? Love everyone, that's the best lesson you can teach a child.

I don't necessarily disagree, with the addition of teaching your children the qualities of those undeserving of their love (abusive folk and their like).

No, the subject is about "teaching children about Jesus at a young age", which you guys turned into being about indoctrination.

My original point was that for the Christian, there is no commandment but to love everyone, even the undeserving. For if you only love the deserving, where is the reward? No one deserves God's love, yet he loved you anyway; And THAT"S what being a Christian is about, 'to Be like Christ'.

Quote:John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Quote:1 Corinthians 13

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

*emphasis mine*

I'll repeat what I stated before:

(March 11, 2016 at 5:45 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Indoctrination? please, Since when is teaching a child to love their fellow man indoctrination?

You can teach people about the fictional character Jesus portrayed in the bible, that is perfectly valid. It's telling your child that this is an accurate account of real events, which has some relevancy to real life (beyond perhaps some useful messages), which is indoctrination.

Telling your child that many historians believe there was a historical figure around that time at which the stories were based on, is also accurate, and that would be teaching. Telling them Jesus was real beyond doubt, and still is real, is indoctrination.

Telling your kid Santa is real is also indoctrination, although parents generally plan to undo it at an early age. Or to confess it when the child starts asking critical questions.

So, how many Christians would have the guts to say to their young child, "Daddy believes these stories in the bible are real."

Not many, I'll bet. Because then you'll be faced with the same questions you get from us, and for which you have no decent answer.

"Because you can't prove they're not real, Johnny."

"Because lots of people believe it Johnny."

"Because the universe didn't create itself, Johnny."

"Because I had a personal experience, Johnny."

"Because my parents told me it was true, Johnny."

If you think your child is going to come to the same conclusions as you, based on the available "evidence", why do you need to program them at an early age? Is there a anything else that is evidently true that needs such underhand tactics in order to get people to believe it?

(March 13, 2016 at 5:01 am)robvalue Wrote: You can teach people about the fictional character Jesus portrayed in the bible, that is perfectly valid. It's telling your child that this is an accurate account of real events, which has some relevancy to real life (beyond perhaps some useful messages), which is indoctrination.

Telling your child that many historians believe there was a historical figure around that time at which the stories were based on, is also accurate, and that would be teaching. Telling them Jesus was real beyond doubt, and still is real, is indoctrination.

If you want to believe the way Jesus was portrayed was fictional, fine; the funny thing is you all ask for proof, and what's more proof than God himself condescending himself down to being a human? Stop being so full of yourselves, People didn't Just start being skeptics in the 20-21 centuries, they have ALWAYS been skeptical, Which is why Jesus had to start almost every sentence with "truly, truly I say to you".

"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” - John 10:37-38

In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. - John 14:2
*emphasis mine*

As far as historical figures go, there are plenty that aren't portrayed accurately in the history texts, do you consider that indoctrination? Where are you going to draw the line?

I draw the line at telling the kid this is a protrayal and not actual events, whenever that is the case.

Are you going to explain what you just said to me to a kid? Do you think that would be convincing to them? "The story is true because the story says it's true?"

Will you own your beliefs and give reasons?

Or will you just tell them it's true uncritically?

Religion it's a adult thing nothing for a child the end.