He's not slamming Obama.  He's referencing the obstructionist republicans in the house and senate who have done nothing over the past 7 years.  I will say this, he is overestimating Hillary abilities if he thinks she can get them off their asses and actually govern like they were elected to do.  I'm not sure the reanimated corpse of Ronald Reagan could perform that feat of magic.

The idea that the Soviet public, who after all overthrew the communist regime, were brainwashed is silly. It's true that they were subject to propaganda and indoctrination, but that doesn't mean that they believed what they were told, say, about a "worker's paradise" -- they were the ones, after all lining up for three hours to get bread.

(March 21, 2016 at 11:16 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The idea that the Soviet public, who after all overthrew the communist regime, were brainwashed is silly. It's true that they were subject to propaganda and indoctrination, but that doesn't mean that they believed what they were told, say, about a "worker's paradise" -- they were the ones, after all lining up for three hours to get bread.

Then the question is who really actually believes in a communist utopia? Considering the reeducation and work through labor camps, maybe the ruling party, but I seriously question why a poor person would still desire such a life based on lies.

(March 21, 2016 at 10:53 pm)Kosh Wrote: He's not slamming Obama.  He's referencing the obstructionist republicans in the house and senate who have done nothing over the past 7 years.  I will say this, he is overestimating Hillary abilities if he thinks she can get them off their asses and actually govern like they were elected to do.  I'm not sure the reanimated corpse of Ronald Reagan could perform that feat of magic.

Bill is full of shit.  He didn't give Obama one speck of credit for his accomplishments.  He was yammering about how his fellow lying redneck Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  Screw them.

(March 21, 2016 at 11:45 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 11:16 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The idea that the Soviet public, who after all overthrew the communist regime, were brainwashed is silly. It's true that they were subject to propaganda and indoctrination, but that doesn't mean that they believed what they were told, say, about a "worker's paradise" -- they were the ones, after all lining up for three hours to get bread.

Then the question is who really actually believes in a communist utopia? Considering the reeducation and work through labor camps, maybe the ruling party, but I seriously question why a poor person would still desire such a life based on lies.

How many actually do, and how many are born into it?

But your notion that the populations of former Communist countries were brainwashed is nonsense.The numbers of East Germans who died trying to get West demonstrate otherwise. The popularity of Solzhenitsyn in samizdat in the Communist days shows otherwise. The revolutions of 1989 show otherwise.

(March 22, 2016 at 4:37 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 10:53 pm)Kosh Wrote: He's not slamming Obama.  He's referencing the obstructionist republicans in the house and senate who have done nothing over the past 7 years.  I will say this, he is overestimating Hillary abilities if he thinks she can get them off their asses and actually govern like they were elected to do.  I'm not sure the reanimated corpse of Ronald Reagan could perform that feat of magic.

Bill is full of shit.  He didn't give Obama one speck of credit for his accomplishments.  He was yammering about how his fellow lying redneck Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  Screw them.

Yes he was yammering about how Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  That is the whole point of giving a campaign speech on someone else's behalf .  Anyone who understands the process shouldn't be shocked by that.  It's one thing for another person (even a spouse) to talk a candidate up as a gift to the world.  It's how that candidates handle themselves that put me on alert.  The democrats handle themselves like adults in their debates.  Trump is so fucking insecure that he needed to show on national television that he doesn't have little hands, which of course means that he can get the job done in the sack.  Good job buddy, you can still get it up for your model wife who is 25 years your junior.  That's quite a feat.  I'm not sure how anyone could have watched that without rolling their eyes.

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(March 22, 2016 at 4:37 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 10:53 pm)Kosh Wrote: He's not slamming Obama.  He's referencing the obstructionist republicans in the house and senate who have done nothing over the past 7 years.  I will say this, he is overestimating Hillary abilities if he thinks she can get them off their asses and actually govern like they were elected to do.  I'm not sure the reanimated corpse of Ronald Reagan could perform that feat of magic.

Bill is full of shit.  He didn't give Obama one speck of credit for his accomplishments.  He was yammering about how his fellow lying redneck Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  Screw them.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/...y-clinton/                                      
                                               
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/                                       
                 
Who is the bigger liar?

(March 22, 2016 at 7:28 am)Kosh Wrote:

(March 22, 2016 at 4:37 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Bill is full of shit.  He didn't give Obama one speck of credit for his accomplishments.  He was yammering about how his fellow lying redneck Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  Screw them.

Yes he was yammering about how Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  That is the whole point of giving a campaign speech on someone else's behalf .  Anyone who understands the process shouldn't be shocked by that.  It's one thing for another person (even a spouse) to talk a candidate up as a gift to the world.  It's how that candidates handle themselves that put me on alert.  The democrats handle themselves like adults in their debates.  Trump is so fucking insecure that he needed to show on national television that he doesn't have little hands, which of course means that he can get the job done in the sack.  Good job buddy, you can still get it up for your model wife who is 25 years your junior.  That's quite a feat.  I'm not sure how anyone could have watched that without rolling their eyes.

---

(March 22, 2016 at 4:37 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Bill is full of shit.  He didn't give Obama one speck of credit for his accomplishments.  He was yammering about how his fellow lying redneck Hillary is the best thing in the universe.  Screw them.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/...y-clinton/                                      
                                               
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/                                       
                 
Who is the bigger liar?

Nope, not going to play that game. The GOP are the party of the rich and the religious right. The GOP is the party that has done nothing but sell hate and fear. The GOP is the one with a jackass in the lead who scapegoats everyone else like Hitler did. Whatever flaws you want to point at that Dems have and our politicians have, are still far better than the party of bullshit hyper nationalism "Make Germany Great Again".

(March 22, 2016 at 4:38 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many actually do, and how many are born into it?

But your notion that the populations of former Communist countries were brainwashed is nonsense.The numbers of East Germans who died trying to get West demonstrate otherwise. The popularity of Solzhenitsyn in samizdat in the Communist days shows otherwise. The revolutions of 1989 show otherwise.

But many fighting against the regimes were actually fighting for democratic socialism. Such as the short lived experiment in Czechoslovakia. Fighting against an oppressor doesn't mean the west was seen as an ideal to imitate in every aspect.

(March 22, 2016 at 10:02 am)abaris Wrote:

(March 22, 2016 at 4:38 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many actually do, and how many are born into it?

But your notion that the populations of former Communist countries were brainwashed is nonsense.The numbers of East Germans who died trying to get West demonstrate otherwise. The popularity of Solzhenitsyn in samizdat in the Communist days shows otherwise. The revolutions of 1989 show otherwise.

But many fighting against the regimes were actually fighting for democratic socialism. Such as the short lived experiment in Czechoslovakia. Fighting against an oppressor doesn't mean the west was seen as an ideal to imitate in every aspect.

Our right wing nuts are really no different than the nuts in the Middle East. Combine religion with nationalism. No different than Hitler did selling Germany as "God's chosen people".  No different than Stalin did convincing Orthodox Russian Christians to support him in WW2.  Combine economic and religious ideology, sell fear, light the fuse.

As soon as you convince the gullible a utopia is possible, you have set up the stage for human horrors.

(March 22, 2016 at 10:02 am)abaris Wrote:

(March 22, 2016 at 4:38 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: How many actually do, and how many are born into it?

But your notion that the populations of former Communist countries were brainwashed is nonsense.The numbers of East Germans who died trying to get West demonstrate otherwise. The popularity of Solzhenitsyn in samizdat in the Communist days shows otherwise. The revolutions of 1989 show otherwise.

But many fighting against the regimes were actually fighting for democratic socialism. Such as the short lived experiment in Czechoslovakia. Fighting against an oppressor doesn't mean the west was seen as an ideal to imitate in every aspect.

I wasn't arguing that they were imitating the West. I was arguing that they weren't brainwashed.