I've suspected for a long time Drich doesn't have empathy.

The thing is, if this is true, it's not his fault. It's not the same as having empathy and choosing to ignore it. If you simply don't have it, you can't learn it. You can learn to mimick it, but that's all.

Being a person without empathy must be very difficult. I've asked before what the point of "objective morality" is, all these rules laid out, and who it is for. The only sensible answer I've had is that it's for people without empathy. So in such cases, religion might be one way of keeping them somewhat in line with society.

I don't think this is a worthy trade-off in general. But some sort of lingering ethereal threat seems to prove effective for those with and without empathy alike. Unfortunately, the kind of morality religion has to offer is generally hundreds of years behind civilised society.

Seriously, I don't have any great answers for how society should deal with those without empathy. And I feel sorry for people in that situation. They literally do not have a moral compass to guide them. I suppose all they have is pragmatism, which can cause them to at least obey laws. I have heard though that psycopaths in particular do very well in business, probably due to being ruthless and unhindered by moral considerations. So there is a kind of place for them... many "top dogs" have been found to be psycopaths, I believe. They have found a somewhat positive outlet, which stimulates their overly developed reward-based brain chemistry.

Maybe this is part of Drich's "business", trying to win over hardened atheists to his cause. Sadly for him, he has less chance than most, because his whole idea of morality does not correspond in any way to the average atheist. Or indeed theist. Most of them seem to believe morality is about doing what God says and being a good person, even though that doesn't make any sense.

(April 19, 2016 at 4:44 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(April 19, 2016 at 2:09 am)Mathilda Wrote: Drich, if you don't care about your child's life after you raise them, why do you care about disciplining them?

Indeed, why is he against abortion, then? If he doesn't care about the child's life after a particular age, why should he care about the child's life before a particular age?

Where does apathy start, or stop?

I will love my son forever -- or at least until I die -- and I will never stop caring about him, his decisions, or the consequences of his decisions.

Nor will I ever say, "Meh, he's eighteen, I don't need to help him out any more." I reckon that love doesn't have an expiry date.

But then again, I'm not a fundamentalist cunt like ole Drich here.

This is Christianity taken to its logical end, folks. Enjoy the show.

Drich talks a lot about obligation and he has demonstrated in this thread that he doesn't have, or even understand the concept or importance of empathy. He is quite literally a sociopath. The world must be a very strange place for him and he probably can't understand why people don't follow the same rules that he does or listen to what he has to say. This is why people like him believe in objective morality and need to believe in a higher power. It's the only way that they can function in society. Otherwise, why even try fulfilling your obligations? It's why he believes that other people follow a pop morality that can be dismissed. Because he can't understand it.

He is living in a better world because other humans have empathy. Society has been getting better for everyone, including animals, over the course of recent history. He cannot understand that what he is advocating is regressive, not progressive because he does not understand the role of empathy in society. So not only is he freeloading on the gains made by countless generations before him, he's trying to revert the progress that has been made.

We are a successful species precisely because we have empathy. If a predator kills one of us, we all gang up and kill the predator. If we look after everyone then everyone looks after us when we need it. Society can only improve if no one is left behind. Empathy is ingrained into the very essence of what it means to be human, and in this regard, Drich is sorely lacking.

(April 19, 2016 at 5:18 am)Mathilda Wrote: He is quite literally a sociopath.

That's what I was thinking too, ever since his admission of not finding empathy to be important. It's an alien concept to him. He was made one, again by his own admission of being beaten when growing up. Probably combined with a healthy dose of fear the lord and his meaningless concept of love.

(April 19, 2016 at 5:35 am)abaris Wrote:

(April 19, 2016 at 5:18 am)Mathilda Wrote: He is quite literally a sociopath.

That's what I was thinking too, ever since his admission of not finding empathy to be important. It's an alien concept to him. He was made one, again by his own admission of being beaten when growing up. Probably combined with a healthy dose of fear the lord and his meaningless concept of love.

From what I've read about sociopathy or psychopathy (can never tell them apart properly), it can be a combination of predisposition and upbringing. It roughly went like this - many of those who have a predisposition for sociopathy because certain emotional reactions are not automatically present for some possibly genetic reason, still develop a relatively normal sense of empathy by literally learning it while being brought up in a stable and loving environment. If both of those factors are missing however, you will grow up with a dysfunctional sense of empathy.

I'm trying to figure out whether a lack of empathy can be considered a mental disorder.

(April 19, 2016 at 6:11 am)Mathilda Wrote: I'm trying to figure out whether a lack of empathy can be considered a mental disorder.

IANAD, but I remember the DSM having a section on psychopathy or anti-social personality disorders, but I also vaguely remember there being some controversy over the criteria.

(April 18, 2016 at 11:38 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: The only hope for America is humility.

Mein Drumpf, "My hands match my humility. If you make me president my humility will be YUGE!"

(April 18, 2016 at 11:32 am)Losty Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 9:45 am)Drich Wrote: and if he responds to positive your warm gentle tone, with a kick to the gentiles and a loogie to the face??

I will admit, this method is easier if you do it from the start. But if a child were to kick me and spit on me, my reaction would obviously be to tell him/her that I simply cannot talk with someone who is acting so mean. Then I would completely ignore them until they seemed calm. Then I would try again. Patience is important with kids. I have personally seen this method work with "severely behavioral" children. I used to volunteer in a classroom with severe autism kids, and this method generally works even on them. While they may not understand why they can't bite you many could at least work out that if they bite you you'll ignore them. Kids don't like to be ignored.

Also, just to add. This generally works on adults too. The only difference being that with adults, if they never stop the bad behavior, you should just ignore them forever. Where as with children, if they never stop the bad behavior, you should probably look for some help because you can't ignore them for too long.

(April 19, 2016 at 8:29 am)Losty Wrote:

(April 18, 2016 at 11:32 am)Losty Wrote: I will admit, this method is easier if you do it from the start. But if a child were to kick me and spit on me, my reaction would obviously be to tell him/her that I simply cannot talk with someone who is acting so mean. Then I would completely ignore them until they seemed calm. Then I would try again. Patience is important with kids. I have personally seen this method work with "severely behavioral" children. I used to volunteer in a classroom with severe autism kids, and this method generally works even on them. While they may not understand why they can't bite you many could at least work out that if they bite you you'll ignore them. Kids don't like to be ignored.

Also, just to add. This generally works on adults too. The only difference being that with adults, if they never stop the bad behavior, you should just ignore them forever. Where as with children, if they never stop the bad behavior, you should probably look for some help because you can't ignore them for too long.

Reminds me of this comment I read on Facebook

: "If women were to be rulers there would be no wars, just a bunch of countries not talking to each other."

Lol, well I'm not really sure it's limited to women, but not talking to each other sounds like a smarter option than war to me.