(April 3, 2011 at 3:33 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(April 3, 2011 at 8:04 am)tackattack Wrote: “Victims” is a strong word, but you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not talking about the viewers of legal porn being victims. I’m talking about the abused women, men and children resulting from the urges that could or could not be attributed to the use of the legal porn industry fortifying, condoning and exploiting illegal fantasies
To better define my objection. Personally, I see less usefulness in fantasies than real relationships and that is what I mean by I am better without it. If other people feel usefulness in continuing to fantasize, I may consider it a sad state, but I grant them the privilege to do what they think makes them happy. I have no objections with people who choose to view legal porn (even the faked illegal acts). I have an issue with those who can’t control their urges and act on these fantasies damaging men, women and children, often irreparably. Those are the victims I’m talking about. I think fortifying and encouraging those illegal fantasies (which the legal porn industry does) risks more victims rather than saving them by allowing sycophants to act out these fantasies in their own minds over and over.
If you want to make this about things other than porn, other mediums, my religious beliefs, or think I’m using the victimization of real people to elicit an emotional response rather than just stating my beliefs then you’re entitled to, but it distracts the conversation and compounds already big walls of text and erodes to orderliness of discussion.

Now I understand what you are saying about "my life is better off without it". It is a PERSONAL statement and not meant to be a carpet generalization. And I think I understand what you mean in your other posts. You are not against legal porn. You personally think that some legal porn where the actors do things that you dont agree with are questionable, and you frown upon it, but you dont want to make it illegal. You also think this questionable acting, although completely legal, may cause people to act out their fantasies and perform the illegal acts..thus causing victims. You think that legal porn allowing this fantasy to be indulged will ultimately cause a few individuals to act out these fantsies in real life. I can also see where you are honestly trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time find the industry questionable because of their fringe activities. I can understand this now..at least I hope I got it right.

I think I have a personal example that may be equitable to your views: I do web site building, artwork, animations, games, etc. I asked myself what I would be willing to do and what I would deny before I even started the business. I asked myself; "What would I do if someone asks me to make drawings of pedophilia and offered me large sums of money to do it?" the supreme court said it is legal to do such, as long as it is drawings and not real life people. Now, just because it is legal, does that mean I take the money and do something I am against? The answer is "NO". Even though I agree with the ruling that it is legal, does not mean that I think it is okay.. nor does it mean that I want it to be illegal. I think drawings should be given the greatest amount of freedom as possible in a free republic. It doesnt mean I agree with what is being drawn, but I support their freedom to do such, no matter how distasteful it is to me personally. It may encourage people to go out and do what the drawing has in it... it gets a bit complicated after that, so I am at a loss for words unless we decide to break it down even more...its a conflict. Being an absurdist, I can appreciate the confliction of such a discussion.

Is that the platform you are standing on? If so then I understand you completely.

That's the exact same argument against videogames...

(April 3, 2011 at 3:33 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

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(April 3, 2011 at 8:04 am)tackattack Wrote: “Victims” is a strong word, but you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not talking about the viewers of legal porn being victims. I’m talking about the abused women, men and children resulting from the urges that could or could not be attributed to the use of the legal porn industry fortifying, condoning and exploiting illegal fantasies
To better define my objection. Personally, I see less usefulness in fantasies than real relationships and that is what I mean by I am better without it. If other people feel usefulness in continuing to fantasize, I may consider it a sad state, but I grant them the privilege to do what they think makes them happy. I have no objections with people who choose to view legal porn (even the faked illegal acts). I have an issue with those who can’t control their urges and act on these fantasies damaging men, women and children, often irreparably. Those are the victims I’m talking about. I think fortifying and encouraging those illegal fantasies (which the legal porn industry does) risks more victims rather than saving them by allowing sycophants to act out these fantasies in their own minds over and over.
If you want to make this about things other than porn, other mediums, my religious beliefs, or think I’m using the victimization of real people to elicit an emotional response rather than just stating my beliefs then you’re entitled to, but it distracts the conversation and compounds already big walls of text and erodes to orderliness of discussion.

Now I understand what you are saying about "my life is better off without it". It is a PERSONAL statement and not meant to be a carpet generalization. And I think I understand what you mean in your other posts. You are not against legal porn. You personally think that some legal porn where the actors do things that you dont agree with are questionable, and you frown upon it, but you dont want to make it illegal. You also think this questionable acting, although completely legal, may cause people to act out their fantasies and perform the illegal acts..thus causing victims. You think that legal porn allowing this fantasy to be indulged will ultimately cause a few individuals to act out these fantsies in real life. I can also see where you are honestly trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time find the industry questionable because of their fringe activities. I can understand this now..at least I hope I got it right.

I think I have a personal example that may be equitable to your views: I do web site building, artwork, animations, games, etc. I asked myself what I would be willing to do and what I would deny before I even started the business. I asked myself; "What would I do if someone asks me to make drawings of pedophilia and offered me large sums of money to do it?" the supreme court said it is legal to do such, as long as it is drawings and not real life people. Now, just because it is legal, does that mean I take the money and do something I am against? The answer is "NO". Even though I agree with the ruling that it is legal, does not mean that I think it is okay.. nor does it mean that I want it to be illegal. I think drawings should be given the greatest amount of freedom as possible in a free republic. It doesnt mean I agree with what is being drawn, but I support their freedom to do such, no matter how distasteful it is to me personally. It may encourage people to go out and do what the drawing has in it... it gets a bit complicated after that, so I am at a loss for words unless we decide to break it down even more...its a conflict. Being an absurdist, I can appreciate the confliction of such a discussion.

Is that the platform you are standing on? If so then I understand you completely.

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Yes that in effect is my stance. That was a good example as well. Looking at a drawing though isn't intended to immerse people in the experience. A drawing can be deemed "artistic erotica" and people can find beauty in it without the intent being to excite people's baser instincts. As Ash eluded to, video games and snuff films (and all the other illegal categories) are meant to draw in the audience and have them
"experience" that fantasy. That takes it out of simple visual recognition and processes it through the emotional memory centers of the brain and backs up the urges with chemical rewards. It increases compulsion if done regularly. If you can look at a snuff film of child abuse or rape and have no emotional response great... then it doesn't apply to you. But it apparently turns on a whole mess of people because they have their own porn category. I think that speaks volumes about the urges of the average person, and personally makes me sad to be human sometimes.

(April 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm)Ashendant Wrote: That's the exact same argument against videogames...

Then they will not censor or ban video games.

(April 3, 2011 at 10:31 pm)tackattack Wrote: Yes that in effect is my stance. That was a good example as well. Looking at a drawing though isn't intended to immerse people in the experience. A drawing can be deemed "artistic erotica" and people can find beauty in it without the intent being to excite people's baser instincts. As Ash eluded to, video games and snuff films (and all the other illegal categories) are meant to draw in the audience and have them
"experience" that fantasy. That takes it out of simple visual recognition and processes it through the emotional memory centers of the brain and backs up the urges with chemical rewards. It increases compulsion if done regularly. If you can look at a snuff film of child abuse or rape and have no emotional response great... then it doesn't apply to you. But it apparently turns on a whole mess of people because they have their own porn category. I think that speaks volumes about the urges of the average person, and personally makes me sad to be human sometimes.

That is all fine and dandy, and yes, it makes sense. BUT! We are talking about something that people SHOULD KNOW is FICTIONAL, or ACTING. The idea that it is, in fact, fictional based IS a factor as well. Someone who wanted the real thing would not be searching in a place where he/she knows where it is just play acting.

Please...let us at least agree that there is a KNOWLEDGE that the material is fictional.

Tacky Wrote:4- The small point you’re conceding to is the only point I’m trying to make, and it’s the reason I don’t support the porn industry and voted no. Rape, child molestation, spousal abuse is illegal because they have victims. People can watch all the porn they want and never think of the repercussions of their influence on demand. I say there is a considerable increase in urges when you bombard your brain with repetitive fantasies and fortify that with chemical rewards in the brain. I think this increases, needlessly, or at the least contributes to an increase in demand and acting on those impulses. I think this does break the intent of the law which is to prevent more victimization, and is poor business ethics to bend the rules so that you’re clearly simulating illegal activity.

Making a thing illegal means that it is occurring naturally and you want it to stop. Porn 'artists' or whatever are not simulating an illegal activity to expand their business: they are simulating an activity people desire to expand their business, Remove the illegality of it, and it will remain. Reinstate the illegality of it, and it will remain.

Rape is hardwired into us as a result of the disgusting natural device that is the survival of the most lucky... where every abhorrent thing you can do to get ahead at the expense of others of your group increases your chances of propagating your DNA. Not to mention the nonexistence of consent in the beginning of it all.

Quote:6- This is another point we’re just going to have to disagree on. We’re from 2 different worlds on this. I would never intentionally exploit anything I valued, and I value human life. I don’t live by the selfish principle and I don’t instill that in my children. I don’t think we can reach common ground on this either.

I'm honest about my exploitation of things. I also am a chronic donator. I understand that I enjoy giving people things, therefore even when I give to them: i am exploiting them to my own end (feeling better). I intentionally hang out with people I like because I enjoy them being there (am though often unconsciously, i realize I am exploiting them because of this). Me exploiting people doesn't bug me in the slightest. I cannot escape a selfish principle, no matter how much I give without killing myself. And suicide to give to others because it's what I want to do is as selfish as it gets.

Quote:8-I would consider regulating anything that pretended to be illegal like: rape, incest, minor sex, abuse, snuff films, etc. Catering to these activities when they are intended to be real encourages people to fantasize about doing said activities and increases their compunction to act them out. They might not necessarily act on them, but let’s face it; Generally, people are weak willed and do whatever pleases them. The very purpose for porn is to get you involved enough emotionally so that it “feels real” which is different than a war movie telling a story. It’s meant to draw you in and it can be addictive. I see legal porn generally as having little productive value compared to real life, but people should be allowed to watch it. I specifically find the fact that there is legal porn faking illegal acts so abhorrent as to warrant regulation.

People fantasize about doing these things anyway. I'd rather have a people that are used to using their imaginations: it accelerates their creativity, and makes them more useful en masse. Generally, people are cowards, and fear the strong steel fist of authority. Shoot people for breaking a law, and you will find that usually people are too scared of you to retaliate. Depends on what the law is. People aren't going to form an armed rebellion because you are denying them (a type of) porn. They will, however, still access that porn, and cause more crime than you were preventing. Illegalize beer, and you don't have people up in arms shooting guns in the air: you have bootleggers. Porn? Same. You accomplish nothing by banning porn... you infact make things worse (either in enforcing your ban or in the additional 'crimes' it causes).

War movies don't try to wrench with your emotions? Why the hell would they show you things from people's perspectives then? That doesn't help us understand the strategy or facts one bit. It is entirely emotional. A strategy video doesn't integrate a person emotionally: it is a lesson. I find that there are video games in which I may vandalize without hurting others to the effect that I don't have to vandalize to get my destructive thrills.

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(April 4, 2011 at 12:25 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(April 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm)Ashendant Wrote: That's the exact same argument against videogames...

Then they will not censor or ban video games.

Because if 'they' do, we won't be able to shoot each other in the head without actually physically damaging each other. We have guns, and we will then use them

(April 4, 2011 at 12:25 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

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(April 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm)Ashendant Wrote: That's the exact same argument against videogames...

Then they will not censor or ban video games.

(April 3, 2011 at 10:31 pm)tackattack Wrote: Yes that in effect is my stance. That was a good example as well. Looking at a drawing though isn't intended to immerse people in the experience. A drawing can be deemed "artistic erotica" and people can find beauty in it without the intent being to excite people's baser instincts. As Ash eluded to, video games and snuff films (and all the other illegal categories) are meant to draw in the audience and have them
"experience" that fantasy. That takes it out of simple visual recognition and processes it through the emotional memory centers of the brain and backs up the urges with chemical rewards. It increases compulsion if done regularly. If you can look at a snuff film of child abuse or rape and have no emotional response great... then it doesn't apply to you. But it apparently turns on a whole mess of people because they have their own porn category. I think that speaks volumes about the urges of the average person, and personally makes me sad to be human sometimes.

That is all fine and dandy, and yes, it makes sense. BUT! We are talking about something that people SHOULD KNOW is FICTIONAL, or ACTING. The idea that it is, in fact, fictional based IS a factor as well. Someone who wanted the real thing would not be searching in a place where he/she knows where it is just play acting.

Please...let us at least agree that there is a KNOWLEDGE that the material is fictional.

---

I agree that for most people there is a knowledge that it's fictional. But don't you think a pedophile watches the fakes and gets his rocks off just the same because he wants the fantasy to be real. It's a blurry line between knowing it's fake and wanting it to be real. Some of us have fine upstanding personal morality, not everyone does, and some people are no more thinking about controlling their instincts than a well trained dog. I think someone who wanted the real thing, but knew it was illegal and was struggling with the idea would seek out just this type of legal fake porn. I also think it would increase their urges to make that fantasy a reality, which is why I'm against that type of legal porn.

(April 4, 2011 at 2:32 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote:

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Tacky Wrote:4- The small point you’re conceding to is the only point I’m trying to make, and it’s the reason I don’t support the porn industry and voted no. Rape, child molestation, spousal abuse is illegal because they have victims. People can watch all the porn they want and never think of the repercussions of their influence on demand. I say there is a considerable increase in urges when you bombard your brain with repetitive fantasies and fortify that with chemical rewards in the brain. I think this increases, needlessly, or at the least contributes to an increase in demand and acting on those impulses. I think this does break the intent of the law which is to prevent more victimization, and is poor business ethics to bend the rules so that you’re clearly simulating illegal activity.

Making a thing illegal means that it is occurring naturally and you want it to stop. Porn 'artists' or whatever are not simulating an illegal activity to expand their business: they are simulating an activity people desire to expand their business, Remove the illegality of it, and it will remain. Reinstate the illegality of it, and it will remain.

Rape is hardwired into us as a result of the disgusting natural device that is the survival of the most lucky... where every abhorrent thing you can do to get ahead at the expense of others of your group increases your chances of propagating your DNA. Not to mention the nonexistence of consent in the beginning of it all.

Quote:6- This is another point we’re just going to have to disagree on. We’re from 2 different worlds on this. I would never intentionally exploit anything I valued, and I value human life. I don’t live by the selfish principle and I don’t instill that in my children. I don’t think we can reach common ground on this either.

I'm honest about my exploitation of things. I also am a chronic donator. I understand that I enjoy giving people things, therefore even when I give to them: i am exploiting them to my own end (feeling better). I intentionally hang out with people I like because I enjoy them being there (am though often unconsciously, i realize I am exploiting them because of this). Me exploiting people doesn't bug me in the slightest. I cannot escape a selfish principle, no matter how much I give without killing myself. And suicide to give to others because it's what I want to do is as selfish as it gets.

Quote:8-I would consider regulating anything that pretended to be illegal like: rape, incest, minor sex, abuse, snuff films, etc. Catering to these activities when they are intended to be real encourages people to fantasize about doing said activities and increases their compunction to act them out. They might not necessarily act on them, but let’s face it; Generally, people are weak willed and do whatever pleases them. The very purpose for porn is to get you involved enough emotionally so that it “feels real” which is different than a war movie telling a story. It’s meant to draw you in and it can be addictive. I see legal porn generally as having little productive value compared to real life, but people should be allowed to watch it. I specifically find the fact that there is legal porn faking illegal acts so abhorrent as to warrant regulation.

People fantasize about doing these things anyway. I'd rather have a people that are used to using their imaginations: it accelerates their creativity, and makes them more useful en masse. Generally, people are cowards, and fear the strong steel fist of authority. Shoot people for breaking a law, and you will find that usually people are too scared of you to retaliate. Depends on what the law is. People aren't going to form an armed rebellion because you are denying them (a type of) porn. They will, however, still access that porn, and cause more crime than you were preventing. Illegalize beer, and you don't have people up in arms shooting guns in the air: you have bootleggers. Porn? Same. You accomplish nothing by banning porn... you infact make things worse (either in enforcing your ban or in the additional 'crimes' it causes).

War movies don't try to wrench with your emotions? Why the hell would they show you things from people's perspectives then? That doesn't help us understand the strategy or facts one bit. It is entirely emotional. A strategy video doesn't integrate a person emotionally: it is a lesson. I find that there are video games in which I may vandalize without hurting others to the effect that I don't have to vandalize to get my destructive thrills.

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(April 4, 2011 at 12:25 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(April 3, 2011 at 5:53 pm)Ashendant Wrote: That's the exact same argument against videogames...

Then they will not censor or ban video games.

Because if 'they' do, we won't be able to shoot each other in the head without actually physically damaging each other. We have guns, and we will then use them

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4-Once again I'm not saying make it illegal. I agree people are "simulating an activity people desire to expand their business". My opinion was this activity increases the demand for it, therefore increases the peoples desire for more of it. Do you cater to those "hardwired disgusting instincts" or do you separate yourself from them? You are making the case that there's a Hannibal, Jeffry Dahmer and Hitler inside each one of us. I don't think I'm hard wired to rape someone. That doesn't mean that It's not somewhere deep in my subconscious id, but I would never do that.

6- If you consciously choose to do it for the reward then yes it's selfish, if it's a subconscious process and consciously you're just "being nice" without any thought of return then it's selfless. Both selfish and selfless imply conscious consent to act.

8- I don't fantasize about raping or beating up women or molesting children. And even if everyone did, which they don't, I don't think a populace with a more active imagination is a worthwhile tradeoff for one child getting victimized because people can't control their urges. I'm not for prohibition of porn, I'm talking about at least attempting to cover up the fact you're condoning illegal actions by a little regulation. I just don't think an industry that caters to illegal fantasies, intends them to "feel real" for the viewer, and allow it to go completely unchecked and accessed by anyone of any age is worthy of publicly(or privately) supporting. I know this won't make any of it go away. I think condoning this activity leads to a more depraved society, not a more civilized one. Regulation will prevent people from rationalizing away their actions and put the accountability squarely on the person and easier to spot for prosecution.


On the side note, they have a rating system for games, at least it's in place. It may not be enforced and is easy to circumvent, but it's at least present and actionable. That's why I support grossly violent and inappropriate video games, but not porn; At least the game industry makes it seem they care on the surface.

(April 4, 2011 at 9:33 am)tackattack Wrote: I agree that for most people there is a knowledge that it's fictional. But don't you think a pedophile watches the fakes and gets his rocks off just the same because he wants the fantasy to be real. It's a blurry line between knowing it's fake and wanting it to be real. Some of us have fine upstanding personal morality, not everyone does, and some people are no more thinking about controlling their instincts than a well trained dog. I think someone who wanted the real thing, but knew it was illegal and was struggling with the idea would seek out just this type of legal fake porn. I also think it would increase their urges to make that fantasy a reality, which is why I'm against that type of legal porn.

Same exact argument for videogame haters

(April 4, 2011 at 9:33 am)tackattack Wrote: I agree that for most people there is a knowledge that it's fictional. But don't you think a pedophile watches the fakes and gets his rocks off just the same because he wants the fantasy to be real. It's a blurry line between knowing it's fake and wanting it to be real. Some of us have fine upstanding personal morality, not everyone does, and some people are no more thinking about controlling their instincts than a well trained dog. I think someone who wanted the real thing, but knew it was illegal and was struggling with the idea would seek out just this type of legal fake porn. I also think it would increase their urges to make that fantasy a reality, which is why I'm against that type of legal porn.

Surely you are going to offer up some kind of study, or some type of evidence to back this claim up. Im against that type of porn as well, but I would like to see how you came about that conclusion.

(April 4, 2011 at 9:42 am)Ashendant Wrote:

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(April 4, 2011 at 9:33 am)tackattack Wrote: I agree that for most people there is a knowledge that it's fictional. But don't you think a pedophile watches the fakes and gets his rocks off just the same because he wants the fantasy to be real. It's a blurry line between knowing it's fake and wanting it to be real. Some of us have fine upstanding personal morality, not everyone does, and some people are no more thinking about controlling their instincts than a well trained dog. I think someone who wanted the real thing, but knew it was illegal and was struggling with the idea would seek out just this type of legal fake porn. I also think it would increase their urges to make that fantasy a reality, which is why I'm against that type of legal porn.

Same exact argument for videogame haters

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Which you still haven't rebutted in the slightest. Thanks for playing no cookie 4 U

(April 4, 2011 at 1:59 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

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(April 4, 2011 at 9:33 am)tackattack Wrote: I agree that for most people there is a knowledge that it's fictional. But don't you think a pedophile watches the fakes and gets his rocks off just the same because he wants the fantasy to be real. It's a blurry line between knowing it's fake and wanting it to be real. Some of us have fine upstanding personal morality, not everyone does, and some people are no more thinking about controlling their instincts than a well trained dog. I think someone who wanted the real thing, but knew it was illegal and was struggling with the idea would seek out just this type of legal fake porn. I also think it would increase their urges to make that fantasy a reality, which is why I'm against that type of legal porn.

Surely you are going to offer up some kind of study, or some type of evidence to back this claim up. Im against that type of porn as well, but I would like to see how you came about that conclusion.

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What would you like me to show evidence for that I haven't or isn't common knowledge? which porn is illegal? Evidence that pedophiles watch kiddie porn and fake kiddie porn? the process of urges and their tie to emotional response? Evidence that some people don't give a rats ass about what's socially acceptable or not? That people who want to look at people being killed will find a way to see people being killed? What exactly that I haven't already shown evidence for or is common knowledge would you like me to substantiate for you? Perhaps we should start with what particular claim you feel is unsupported.

(April 4, 2011 at 9:33 am)tackattack Wrote: 4-Once again I'm not saying make it illegal. I agree people are "simulating an activity people desire to expand their business". My opinion was this activity increases the demand for it, therefore increases the peoples desire for more of it. Do you cater to those "hardwired disgusting instincts" or do you separate yourself from them? You are making the case that there's a Hannibal, Jeffry Dahmer and Hitler inside each one of us. I don't think I'm hard wired to rape someone. That doesn't mean that It's not somewhere deep in my subconscious id, but I would never do that.

Bread lines show that the absence of a thing that is desired (ie: food) causes such a demand for it that people will wait in line for many hours, and not necessarily without violence and agitation. Take the bread away completely... and you have rioting on a horrifying scale from people's demand for it. Now I agree that porn isn't as vital to us as food... but an absence of it when it was there before would increase the demand for it like nothing else.

There is a hannibal and hitler inside each of us... depends on how far we are pushed and in which direction. My personality (me, I, Aerzia, etc) couldn't rape someone consciously (today), because i've been pushed to find this disgusting and a horrible thing to do to someone. However, I am occasionally attracted to 'rape porn' (more often forms of BDSM) because I want to be on the receiving end at times, and especially after having sex with people that are too gentle for me. I tell one to bite harder and they do so marginally -_-

Quote:6- If you consciously choose to do it for the reward then yes it's selfish, if it's a subconscious process and consciously you're just "being nice" without any thought of return then it's selfless. Both selfish and selfless imply conscious consent to act.

I typically am not thinking about the inner workings of my mind when I gleefully give someone something I don't recognize consciousness when it comes to the things I do: I wouldn't do the if I didn't have something to gain by it. I don't have to think about something to gain happiness by doing it

Quote:8- I don't fantasize about raping or beating up women or molesting children. And even if everyone did, which they don't, I don't think a populace with a more active imagination is a worthwhile tradeoff for one child getting victimized because people can't control their urges.

With a more active imagination... your populace becomes the technological wonder of the world. That is well worth a few children being victimized because people can't control their urges (especially when children are victimized anyway by people who can and decide to do so).

Quote:I'm not for prohibition of porn, I'm talking about at least attempting to cover up the fact you're condoning illegal actions by a little regulation. I just don't think an industry that caters to illegal fantasies, intends them to "feel real" for the viewer, and allow it to go completely unchecked and accessed by anyone of any age is worthy of publicly(or privately) supporting. I know this won't make any of it go away. I think condoning this activity leads to a more depraved society, not a more civilized one. Regulation will prevent people from rationalizing away their actions and put the accountability squarely on the person and easier to spot for prosecution.

I've never understood 'rationalizing away their actions'... precisely what is meant by this?

Depravity has nothing to do with a civilized society. You can have a civilized society of people that only want to do a couple of things... and you can have a civilized society of people that have every kink in and out of the book.

I don't care that an action is illegal, tacky... legality almost never enters into whether I will act or not. I simply do not see a problem with porn. You tell me that it affects people's brains, and I don't deny it. I think it is false that people go from the point of it affecting their brains to them either losing control or willfully acting on a thing they found in a fantasy. I've yet to see someone do something I consider 'wrong' as a result of harry potter, a fantasy that contains a good few murders and lots of violence. Same for any book that isn't titled 'steal this book' But that isn't a fantasy, it is a guide and a way to understand the processes.

Quote:On the side note, they have a rating system for games, at least it's in place. It may not be enforced and is easy to circumvent, but it's at least present and actionable. That's why I support grossly violent and inappropriate video games, but not porn; At least the game industry makes it seem they care on the surface.

Wait... now I am confused. You wish to deny adults rape porn... but are fine with video games being violent and 'inappropriate', so long as they have a rating that means only adults can play them???? 0.o

And I dislike the rating system. I wouldn't mind if it was a suggested/recommended thing... but it's a legal thing. It annoyed me greatly to have to ask my mother to buy a game for me because I was a year or 2 beneath 17. I don't have to as her permission for me to buy candy (a much more damaging creature), but I have to waste her time and mine in pulling her into my favorite section of a store to buy something for me.

Im just wondering why you keep going on and on about it. You said you dont want to make it illegal.