(May 21, 2016 at 10:16 am)Heatheness Wrote: Some men are pigs, some are not. I love the ones who are not.

Good to see you here, sweetie!

And another thing. If two people are in a relationship where one is the sole financial provider, and that person is allowing their spouse to more or less bully him into letting her wrecklessly (I'm not sure that's a word, lol) spend money to the point of it being detrimental to living within their means, then that relationship is not an EQUAL, emotionally healthy relationship. It has zero to do with "men versus women" and everything to do with the nature of the relationship.

And frankly, to give some stereotyping right back: if a big, powerful, career driven, manly man can't put his foot down and squelch his irresponsible trophy wife's spending, what kind of "man" is he anyway? And what kind "man" is he to cry and whine, "my wife spends all my money! Boo boo!"

And also, like thump said, you didn't answer my question. Are women payed equally or not? And why shouldn't equal pay count as a "right"?

(May 21, 2016 at 10:21 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(May 21, 2016 at 10:16 am)Heatheness Wrote: Some men are pigs, some are not. I love the ones who are not.

Good to see you here, sweetie!

You too, dear!

(May 21, 2016 at 10:30 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: And another thing.  If two people are in a relationship where one is the sole financial provider, and that person is allowing their spouse to more or less bully him into letting her wrecklessly (I'm not sure that's a word, lol) spend money to the point of it being detrimental to living within their means, then that relationship is not an EQUAL, emotionally healthy relationship.  It has zero to do with "men versus women" and everything to do with the nature of the relationship.

And frankly, to give some stereotyping right back:  if a big, powerful, career driven, manly man can't put his foot down and squelch his irresponsible trophy wife's spending, what kind of "man" is he anyway?  And what kind "man" is he to cry and whine, "my wife spends all my money!  Boo boo!"

And also, like thump said, you didn't answer my question.  Are women payed equally or not?  And why shouldn't equal pay count as a "right"?

Couldn't have said it better myself!

(May 21, 2016 at 9:49 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(May 20, 2016 at 10:40 pm)pool the great Wrote: I don't see anything other than "equal rights" . Maybe other subsections of equal rights but equal rights is what it boils down to.

Equal rights are the rights granted under the law, feminism also battles against gender roles, labels, social stigmas and stereotypes. Also If you don't think a woman's right to bodily autonomy is still being fought for, then clearly your head is in the sand.

1. Gender roles?
Do you mean that people observe obvious difference between two individuals and assigns them different tasks that favor their strengths?
Have you not been in a workplace environment? If you have, have you not noticed tasks being assigned to people that are good with those tasks? Like, the muscular hunk being assigned a task to move something heavy?
It's common sense to assign tasks that favor one's strength. It is a practice seen in everyday life. If you judge a fish's strength by its ability to climb a tree, you're going to be fairly disappointed. It's foolishness to advocate the environment to change to favor the fish to climb the tree rather than just asking the fish to go swim in a lake. Catch my drift?

2. Labels? I don't know what you mean. Do you mean using basic physical cues to determine the gender of a person?

3. Social stigma? You'll have to elaborate more for me to give an real input on that.

4. Stereotypes? What do you mean? Be more specific.

(May 21, 2016 at 10:33 am)Bella Morte Wrote:

(May 21, 2016 at 10:30 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: And another thing.  If two people are in a relationship where one is the sole financial provider, and that person is allowing their spouse to more or less bully him into letting her wrecklessly (I'm not sure that's a word, lol) spend money to the point of it being detrimental to living within their means, then that relationship is not an EQUAL, emotionally healthy relationship.  It has zero to do with "men versus women" and everything to do with the nature of the relationship.

And frankly, to give some stereotyping right back:  if a big, powerful, career driven, manly man can't put his foot down and squelch his irresponsible trophy wife's spending, what kind of "man" is he anyway?  And what kind "man" is he to cry and whine, "my wife spends all my money!  Boo boo!"

And also, like thump said, you didn't answer my question.  Are women payed equally or not?  And why shouldn't equal pay count as a "right"?

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Oh, thanks! :: kisses ::

(May 21, 2016 at 10:11 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 21, 2016 at 9:41 am)pool the great Wrote: The logic is simple :
1) Women have equal rights.
2) A movement that "fights" for equal rights for women is senseless.

Equal pay is not related with equal rights.
Furthermore, it is against the law to discriminate someone based on their gender in the workplace.

But since you brought up the issue, here is something of an interesting read of discrimination :

Okay...regarding the money gap, I don't understand your position at ALL. You argue in favor of tradition gender roles (i.e. Men as providers and women being home to raise the children) but it irritates you that women spend more than they earn? You can't have it both ways pool. As a stay at home mom, I spend more money than I earn (which is exactly zero dollars) and all of the money I spend is my husbands. So...am I taking advantage of my husband now? Despite the fact that the money I spend is almost NEVEr spent on myself?

Also, how is the right to earn the same wages as men for the same position and job performance not a right?

Ad hominem.
My personality is irrelevant to the position I'm holding.

Quote:Also, how is the right to earn the same wages as men for the same position and job performance not a right?

Never said it wasn't. If you look at my previous post you'll see that I said that it is illegal to discriminate someone based on their gender at the workplace (it is), it includes discriminatory pay.
If you have any source as to how women are paid less in jobs in the same position and for the same performance, please by all means, present it. Until you do present it, I'll have to see your argument as playing the victim card. Sorry.

(May 21, 2016 at 10:36 am)pool the great Wrote:

(May 21, 2016 at 10:11 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Okay...regarding the money gap, I don't understand your position at ALL. You argue in favor of tradition gender roles (i.e. Men as providers and women being home to raise the children) but it irritates you that women spend more than they earn? You can't have it both ways pool. As a stay at home mom, I spend more money than I earn (which is exactly zero dollars) and all of the money I spend is my husbands. So...am I taking advantage of my husband now? Despite the fact that the money I spend is almost NEVEr spent on myself?

Also, how is the right to earn the same wages as men for the same position and job performance not a right?

Ad hominem.
My personality is irrelevant to the position I'm holding.

Lol, what are you talking about? I am asking you to elaborate on your opinion/feelings about something, not commenting on your personality. Maybe slow it down with the logical fallacies a bit.

(May 21, 2016 at 10:34 am)pool the great Wrote: 1. Gender roles?
Do you mean that people observe obvious difference between two individuals and assigns them different tasks that favor their strengths?

You can stop right there, since it's a known fact that women are paid less for doing the same job as a male employee.

The rest is just blah, blah, since there's no reason for that approach other than considering a woman's work less valuable than that of her male counterpart.

That's what feminism is about these days, not fighting the likes of you. Well, maybe if they're in a position of power, but not if they're just insignificant paternalistic romaticists.