Ok, to many people this is going to sound like some crazy idea which is just as nonsense as the multitude of religions believed by billions today, but hear me out on this one

Religion has been part of the human race for thousands of years, no one can deny this, however the average person never seems to question (or at least i havent heard them shouting loud enough) where exactly these religious beliefs came from. i mean sure people might say "oh they just came from some psycho who convinced everyone around him", but no one comes up with a real idea. so here's food for thought... what if it was indeed extra-terrestrial beings which influenced religion?

why do i say this? am i a mad man? well in regard to the second question quite possibly, but in regard to the first, i have seen plenty of things which would incline me to suggest this. for starters there are countless images drawn by cave men and ancient civilisations which seem to depict some space faring creatures, an example of it i will try and post. the 'ancient astronaut' theory as it has been called should be looked up if you really want to see where i am coming from.

this is probably all just a load of crap i grant you, but it is interesting to think that all of the major religions today and those in the past have all depicted gods/ a god which resides in the sky above, and that angels come from 'heaven' etc. but in fact what if these god's were E.T.? which have shaped our religious beliefs without us really knowing it?

i'm interested to hear any thoughts on this, and please if your going to shoot me down in flames please bear in mind i am not stating this as fact, just a possibility. if your interested to hear more evidence for this theory i will do my best to respond with some.

Thanks,
Napo

   

In truth your probly right, I am a profound beleiver that aliens do exist( I mean come on don't be so dumb) and that they have influenced our society in many ways. Allot of the maricles in religions are capable of being reproduced today with special effects. And if they did, after a couple hundred years people wouldn't care and after a thousand people would forget. Civilization has actually been around longer than you think, there are ancient cities under the sea, i doubt their remnants of atlantis but they are certainly proof that we are much older then what is commanly believed.

Here's some proof to help both the theories of ancient aliens, and humanities true age. http://hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysterie...Tiahuanaco

The best evidence for such a claim is a picture of a man sitting on something vaguely rocket-shaped? If there was a schematic for a spaceship there, or some description of it's working that would require scientific knowledge unavailable to prehistoric man, that would warrant discussion of this idea. A picture of a man sitting on a fork? Not so much. If you want this to be taken seriously, you'll need to do much, much better than that.

It seems like you believe this idea, but are scared of having it ridiculed. Perhaps spend a little time thinking about why such an idea might be subject to ridicule.

Quote: if your interested to hear more evidence for this theory i will do my best to respond with some.

Please, go ahead. But also bear in mind that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

---

(April 15, 2011 at 5:30 am)JohnDG Wrote: In truth your probly right, I am a profound beleiver that aliens do exist( I mean come on don't be so dumb) and that they have influenced our society in many ways.

The former may be true. Given the vastness of the universe and the sheer number of stars, and making assumptions about the number of planets based on the number of extrasolar planets detected thus far using the transit method, it seems reasonable to think that there might be at least single-celled life in at least one other place in the universe.
To have a "profound belief" in this, however, is irrational, since there is currently no evidence to support such a belief.

The latter part is even more irrational. Not only are you claiming existence of alien life, but that it has visited earth, and influenced our societies. There is no evidence whatsoever to support such a claim.
It amazes me that someone can dismiss the idea of god as irrational whilst clinging onto other nonsenses which should be dismissed for the selfsame reason.

Quote:The best evidence for such a claim is a picture of a man sitting on something vaguely rocket-shaped? If there was a schematic for a spaceship there, or some description of it's working that would require scientific knowledge unavailable to prehistoric man, that would warrant discussion of this idea. A picture of a man sitting on a fork? Not so much. If you want this to be taken seriously, you'll need to do much, much better than that.

So your quite sure that man was prehistoric at that time period? Sorry i didn't realize you had a time machine. Maybe you didn't realize that evolution takes more than a couple million years, if not hundreds of millions, tens of millions. And their are extremely convincing pieces of evidence if you've ever taken the time to look. Most of it is actually concidered forbidden archeology, because it goes against everything we believe in, especially religion. Their is actually a working GEAR mechanism clock dated around 1000 A.D. So get your facts right bro. http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/archaeolo...anism.html

Quote:The latter part is even more irrational. Not only are you claiming existence of alien life, but that it has visited earth, and influenced our societies. There is no evidence whatsoever to support such a claim.
It amazes me that someone can dismiss the idea of god as irrational whilst clinging onto other nonsenses which should be dismissed for the selfsame reason.

Haha, now your thinking like a thiest, I lived in arizona most of my life and i was there and saw the ufo that flew over and it was even tailed by helicopters and jeeps. It flew right over the freeway for about 10 minutes actually and oh so slowley. One day you will see something so clearly it will make you think, holy shit and you will know. It amazes me that you don't believe in god when you believe in propaganda.
Aliens do exist but maybe their afraid of the thiest.

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: So your quite sure that man was prehistoric at that time period?

This kind of cave-painting often predates written records. That is why I referred to prehistoric man. If this particular painting is younger than the start of written records in the region it was found, then my use of the word prehistoric was incorrect and I apologise.
However, why you choose to attack such a minor point that isn't even particularly relevant to my conclusion is beyond me.

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Maybe you didn't realize that evolution takes more than a couple million years, if not hundreds of millions, tens of millions.

I'm quite aware of that. Although I don't see the relevance.

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Most of it is actually concidered forbidden archeology, because it goes against everything we believe in, especially religion.

The psuedoscientist always claims that the scientific concensus is a conspiracy against him. The homeopath claims it. The acupuncturist claims it. The intelligent design proponent claims it. And it is never true.

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Their is actually a working GEAR mechanism clock dated around 1000 A.D. So get your facts right bro. http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/archaeolo...anism.html

So what? Humans are smart creatures. How is a 1000y.o. gear mechanism evidence of alien life?

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: So get your facts right bro.

Get my facts right about what? I never disputed the existence of a 1000 year old gear mechanism.
And I'm not sure the aggressive tone is really necessary...

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Haha, now your thinking like a thiest

How so? Because I refuse to accept a claim without good evidence?

(April 15, 2011 at 5:58 am)JohnDG Wrote: Aliens do exist but maybe their afraid of the thiest.

Then show us the evidence of their existence. Until you do, your claim is no better than the theist's claims about the existence of god(s).

Quote:Then show us the evidence of their existence. Until you do, your claim is no better than the theist's claims about the existence of god(s).

you'll see them eventually their not hidden, just disbelieved in. But in the same sense, so are all of your claims, so is everybody's who lives. It really doesn't matter unless somebody is 100% factually right, we just won't know, only the future can tell us.(i don't mean to be agressive)

Quote:I'm quite aware of that. Although I don't see the relevance.

It's relevant in the fact we don't even know hold old humanity is yet. There are cities under the sea for example, how would ancient man build cities under water?

Oh come off it. Not all claims are equal. Some claims are well supported by evidence, some are reasonable given the evidence and some are completely unsupported. Yours fall into the latter group.

JohnDG Wrote:you'll see them eventually their not hidden, just disbelieved in

Funny, that's exactly what my aunt says to me about jesus.

JohnDG Wrote:It's relevant in the fact we don't even know hold old humanity is yet. There are cities under the sea for example, how would ancient man build cities under water?

Actually we do, the fossil evidence suggests that humanity is somewhere around 200,000 years old.
Just because something is underwater now doesn't mean it has always been so. The Beringia land-bridge for example, which allowed human migration to North America from Asia was only completely submerged somewhere around 6000 years ago.

(April 15, 2011 at 5:34 am)lilphil1989 Wrote: The best evidence for such a claim is a picture of a man sitting on something vaguely rocket-shaped? If there was a schematic for a spaceship there, or some description of it's working that would require scientific knowledge unavailable to prehistoric man, that would warrant discussion of this idea. A picture of a man sitting on a fork? Not so much. If you want this to be taken seriously, you'll need to do much, much better than that.

It seems like you believe this idea, but are scared of having it ridiculed. Perhaps spend a little time thinking about why such an idea might be subject to ridicule.

Quote: if your interested to hear more evidence for this theory i will do my best to respond with some.

Please, go ahead. But also bear in mind that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

---

(April 15, 2011 at 5:30 am)JohnDG Wrote: In truth your probly right, I am a profound beleiver that aliens do exist( I mean come on don't be so dumb) and that they have influenced our society in many ways.

The former may be true. Given the vastness of the universe and the sheer number of stars, and making assumptions about the number of planets based on the number of extrasolar planets detected thus far using the transit method, it seems reasonable to think that there might be at least single-celled life in at least one other place in the universe.
To have a "profound belief" in this, however, is irrational, since there is currently no evidence to support such a belief.

The latter part is even more irrational. Not only are you claiming existence of alien life, but that it has visited earth, and influenced our societies. There is no evidence whatsoever to support such a claim.
It amazes me that someone can dismiss the idea of god as irrational whilst clinging onto other nonsenses which should be dismissed for the selfsame reason.

ok first of all i am not CLAIMING anything, so do not seek to ridicule me by pretending i am saying something i am not. you dismiss my picture of 'a man sitting on something vaguely rocket-shaped' before even understanding the purpose of why i used it. it is an EXAMPLE. i did not intend for that picture alone to be taken as all of the evidence i have used to create this thread, c'mon give me some credit here.

you speak as if this is what i am saying to be true, when i am not, i am just giving food for thought. i am just giving a point of discussion which i myself find interesting.

i think it was my mistake to label certain things as evidence, i will concede that, this is my first post so i was just trying to get some thoughts out there. however to dismiss certain points entirely would be unfair, so i will try to help you understand why i think this theory is as valid as the next persons.

firstly i want to draw your attention to the pyramids. now can you explain to me how in three different continents at the same time three different civilisations were creating these wonders which we cannot replicate today? they had no way of communicating with each other so that would leave two possibilities. you take this phenomenon as a fluke, a coincidence. OR something influenced these peoples to start builiding these immaculately precise structures at the same time. now i will leave it to you to come up with a theory of your own as to what this 'something' was. i am not saying it was DEFINITELY aliens, BUT i am saying that it is perfectly valid.

i would also point you to the book chariots of the gods. this book does not state any of its theories as fact, however it merely poses questions. much like this thread.

third, what about the nazca lines in peru?
these are massive drawings on the ground which can only be viewed properly from the air? why the hell would a civilisation without the power of flight design these drawings so that they can only be visible from miles up in the sky? to honour their gods? this is exactly the point i am making, what if their 'gods' were these space faring beings!
on top of that how does this civilisation draw an image of a spider which is only viewable under a microscope without the use of A MICROSCOPE?!? can you answer me this? the only solution i can think of myself and forgive me if i am missing something here, but the only thing i can think of is some sort of intervention by something more technologically advanced. either that or again your telling me it's a fluke.

fourth i would like to point you to this documentary series which superbly underlines the whole theory of ancient astronauts. after you have watched this i would like to hear your response. http://www.world-mysteries.com/aa.htm


i think i have given you enough there to come back to me with. i would again like to stress, i do not submit this all as fact, the whole purpose of this thread was to provide food for thought, and make people realise this is just a viable theory as any other as to where religion came from.

thanks,
Napo

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: ok first of all i am not CLAIMING anything, so do not seek to ridicule me by pretending i am saying something i am not.

I'm not ridiculing you, I'm ridiculing the belief that aliens visited ancient man. If you hold that belief, too bad. If you don't, why take offense?

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: you dismiss my picture of 'a man sitting on something vaguely rocket-shaped' before even understanding the purpose of why i used it. it is an EXAMPLE. i did not intend for that picture alone to be taken as all of the evidence i have used to create this thread, c'mon give me some credit here.

Yes, an example of evidence. I dismiss it as such.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: you speak as if this is what i am saying to be true, when i am not, i am just giving food for thought. i am just giving a point of discussion which i myself find interesting.

We are discussing whether or not the belief has any basis in reality. Whether or not you believe it is irrelevant. Although given the defensive nature of your post, it does seem as though you're being somewhat dishonest about what you believe.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: i will try to help you understand why i think this theory is as valid as the next persons.

It's not a theory, at least not by the scientific definition of the word.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: firstly i want to draw your attention to the pyramids. now can you explain to me how in three different continents at the same time three different civilisations were creating these wonders which we cannot replicate today? they had no way of communicating with each other so that would leave two possibilities. you take this phenomenon as a fluke, a coincidence. OR something influenced these peoples to start builiding these immaculately precise structures at the same time. now i will leave it to you to come up with a theory of your own as to what this 'something' was. i am not saying it was DEFINITELY aliens, BUT i am saying that it is perfectly valid.

You're arguing from incredulity, which doesn't hold any water at all.
I also think you're being dishonest and trying to make it seem more unlikely that it really is. Firstly, within several centuries is not "at the same time". Secondly, the buildings are not as similar as you would have us believe. Thirdly, I contend your statement that they cannot be replicated today. It would take a lot of money, manpower and effort, but if someone were so inclined they could have a replica of any of the ancient pyramids built.

We clearly have different definitions of the validity of a claim. To you it seems to mean that it is simply not impossible, to me it means there is evidence in support of the claim.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: third, what about the nazca lines in peru?
these are massive drawings on the ground which can only be viewed properly from the air? why the hell would a civilisation without the power of flight design these drawings so that they can only be visible from miles up in the sky? to honour their gods? this is exactly the point i am making, what if their 'gods' were these space faring beings!
on top of that how does this civilisation draw an image of a spider which is only viewable under a microscope without the use of A MICROSCOPE?!? can you answer me this? the only solution i can think of myself and forgive me if i am missing something here, but the only thing i can think of is some sort of intervention by something more technologically advanced. either that or again your telling me it's a fluke.

The Nazca lines are fucking amazing, sure. Are they evidence of an extra-terrestrial visitor to Earth?

No.

The microscope claim refers to the idea that the Orion Spider actually depicts the Ricinulei spider, a claim which, as far as I can tell, was put forward in the book Beyond Stonehenge, and doesn't seem to appear at all in the peer-reviewed literature. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a claim that appears nowhere but in a somewhat obscure archaeology book.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: i think i have given you enough there to come back to me with. i would again like to stress, i do not submit this all as fact, the whole purpose of this thread was to provide food for thought...

Again, whether or not you believe it to be fact isn't really relevant to a discussion of whether or not it is supported by evidence.

(April 15, 2011 at 6:35 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: ...and make people realise this is just a viable theory as any other as to where religion came from.

No, it simply isn't, and stating that it is over and over again will not make it so.

Quote:Ok, to many people this is going to sound like some crazy idea

Crazy? No? Just tediously unoriginal and naive. It comes up with monotonous regularity every few years,as a fresh crop of gullible ignoramuses (ignorami?) learn to read.

In logic the argument is a called "argument from incredulity" or "argument from lack of imagination". Theists use it all the time, except then we call it "god of the gaps". A blunt way of putting it is "I'm too ignorant and too unimaginative to think of anything else,therefore aliens//god did it"

This broad area may be called the Von Daniken school of history and archaeology. A fraud and pathological liar, Erich Von Daniken spawned an entire new area of crackpottery; "god was an alien" in the 1970's


Do I believe in sentient aliens? Not yet,due to lack of evidence. IE there isn't any. I think it's 'most likely',but am in no hurry to meet an alien. I have no reason to assume they will be benign.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

The entire wiki article is worth reading as good place to begin if you are interested in the topic at a serious level..

Quote:Erich Anton Paul von Däniken (born 14 April 1935) is a Swiss author best known for his controversial claims about extraterrestrial influences on early human culture, in books such as Chariots of the Gods?, published in 1968. Däniken is one of the main figures responsible for popularizing the "paleo-contact" and ancient astronaut hypotheses.

Quote:The evidence that Däniken has put forward to support his paleo-contact hypotheses can be categorized as follows:

Artifacts have been found which are alleged to represent a higher technological knowledge than existed at the times when they were manufactured. Däniken maintains that these artifacts have been manufactured either by extraterrestrial visitors, or by humans who obtained the necessary knowledge from them. Such artifacts include the Antikythera mechanism, Stonehenge, the statues of Easter Island, and the Piri Reis map.
In ancient art throughout the world, themes are observed which can be interpreted to illustrate astronauts, air and space vehicles, non-human but intelligent creatures, and artifacts of a high technology. Däniken also points out details that are similar in the art of unrelated cultures.
Origins of religions might be a reaction to contact with an alien race by primitive humans. The humans considered the technology of the aliens to be supernatural and the aliens themselves to be gods. According to Däniken, the oral and literal traditions of most religions contain references to visitors from "stars" and vehicles traveling through air and space. These, he says, should be interpreted as literal descriptions which have changed during the passage of time and have become more obscure, rather than as symbolic or mythical fiction. One such is Ezekiel's revelation in the Old Testament, which he interprets as a detailed description of a landing spacecraft.

Quote:Several scientists, such as Carl Sagan and I. S. Shklovskii, have written about Däniken's paleocontact and extraterrestrial visitation claims. Although Sagan did not rule out the possibility of visitation, he insisted that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", which Däniken fails to provide.[7]

Däniken claimed that a non-rusting iron pillar in India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence.[8] Later, Däniken admitted in a Playboy interview that the pillar was rusty and man-made, and that as far as supporting his hypotheses goes "we can forget about this iron thing."[9]

Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs", supposedly from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and even located the potter who made them. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw actual proof.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Von_Daniken