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Alex, Isaac Newton was a devout Christian but he also did experiments using the scientific method which have helped mankind move forward.
In regards to this meditation energy Valerie Hunt has performed some experiments to confirm that such an energy field exists.
This is an interesting article that talks about this matter:
In his well-known book The Holographic Universe (1991, Harper Collins, publisher), Michael Talbot discusses the work of Valerie Hunt on energy fields. He writes:
"Over the past twenty years Valerie Hunt, a physical therapist and professor of kinesiology at UCLA, has developed a way to confirm experimentally the
existence of the human energy field. Medical science has long known that humans are electromagnetic beings. Doctors routinely use
electrocardiographs to make electrocardiograms (EKGs), records of the electrical activity of the heart, and electroencephalographs to make
electroencelophalograms (EEGs) of the human brain's electrical activity. Hunt discovered that an electromyograph, a device used to
measure the electrical activity in the muscles, can also pick up the electrical presence of the human energy field."
From this, Hunt came up with the idea to make electromyograms (EMGs) of people's energy fields. Hunt confirmed the existence of the energy fields with this apparatus.
This ties in with what is said in Zhuan Falun: "A qigong master has gong, I have participated in an experiment, and many other qigong masters have also undergone this experiment to
measure their energy. The material elements in gong can be detected by many present-day apparatus." (Lecture Two) Perhaps EMGs are one of the devices used in our present day scientific and technological community that can measure the material elements in gong.
Talbot goes on to describe more of Hunt's findings with respect to energy frequencies found among different people. One example supports the hypothesis that thinking primarily about topics from the mundane world specifically lowers one's energy. He writes:
"One of Hunt's most startling findings is that certain talents and abilities seem to be related to the presence of specific frequencies in a person's energy field. She has found that when the main focus of a person's consciousness is on the material world, the frequencies of their energy field tend to be in the lower range and are not too far removed from the 250 cps [-cycles per second] of the body's biological frequencies. In addition to these, people who are psychic or who have healing abilities also have frequencies of roughly 400 to 800 cps in their field."
Thus in cultivation we are asked to not be too attached to things in the changing temporary world such as pay raises, xinxing frictions, and
so on, because it occupies us with the mundane world and has a literal and demonstrable adverse affect on the level of our energy and our
energy level. In this way, mind intent and topics of thought are shown to be intrinsically linked to one's energy and thus one's level. People
with lower level supernormal abilities are said here to have frequencies between 400-800 cps. However, higher level folks have an
even higher frequency, as Talbot relates:
"People who have frequencies above 900 cps are what Hunt calls mystical personalities."
"Using a modified electromyogram (an electromyogram can normally only detect frequencies up to 20,000 cps), Hunt has encountered individuals who have frequencies as high as 200,000 cps in their energy fields."
May 23, 2016 at 6:39 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 6:46 am by Alex K.)
(May 23, 2016 at 6:21 am)EnergyGem Wrote: Alex, Isaac Newton was a devout Christian but he also did experiments using the scientific method which have helped mankind move forward.
That's a completely irrelevant point. He was mostly smart enough the separate his science from his theology. His laws of mechanics have nothing to do with Jesus.
The clowns you cite, on the other hand, are trying to justify their theology using experiments.
Quote:In regards to this meditation energy Valerie Hunt has performed some experiments to confirm that such an energy field exists.
This is an interesting article that talks about this matter:
In his well-known book The Holographic Universe (1991, Harper Collins, publisher), Michael Talbot discusses the work of Valerie Hunt on energy fields. He writes:
"Over the past twenty years Valerie Hunt, a physical therapist and professor of kinesiology at UCLA, has developed a way to confirm experimentally the
existence of the human energy field. Medical science has long known that humans are electromagnetic beings. Doctors routinely use
electrocardiographs to make electrocardiograms (EKGs), records of the electrical activity of the heart, and electroencephalographs to make
electroencelophalograms (EEGs) of the human brain's electrical activity. Hunt discovered that an electromyograph, a device used to
measure the electrical activity in the muscles, can also pick up the electrical presence of the human energy field."
From this, Hunt came up with the idea to make electromyograms (EMGs) of people's energy fields. Hunt confirmed the existence of the energy fields with this apparatus.
This ties in with what is said in Zhuan Falun: "A qigong master has gong, I have participated in an experiment, and many other qigong masters have also undergone this experiment to
measure their energy. The material elements in gong can be detected by many present-day apparatus." (Lecture Two) Perhaps EMGs are one of the devices used in our present day scientific and technological community that can measure the material elements in gong.
Talbot goes on to describe more of Hunt's findings with respect to energy frequencies found among different people. One example supports the hypothesis that thinking primarily about topics from the mundane world specifically lowers one's energy. He writes:
"One of Hunt's most startling findings is that certain talents and abilities seem to be related to the presence of specific frequencies in a person's energy field. She has found that when the main focus of a person's consciousness is on the material world, the frequencies of their energy field tend to be in the lower range and are not too far removed from the 250 cps [-cycles per second] of the body's biological frequencies. In addition to these, people who are psychic or who have healing abilities also have frequencies of roughly 400 to 800 cps in their field."
Thus in cultivation we are asked to not be too attached to things in the changing temporary world such as pay raises, xinxing frictions, and
so on, because it occupies us with the mundane world and has a literal and demonstrable adverse affect on the level of our energy and our
energy level. In this way, mind intent and topics of thought are shown to be intrinsically linked to one's energy and thus one's level. People
with lower level supernormal abilities are said here to have frequencies between 400-800 cps. However, higher level folks have an
even higher frequency, as Talbot relates:
"People who have frequencies above 900 cps are what Hunt calls mystical personalities."
"Using a modified electromyogram (an electromyogram can normally only detect frequencies up to 20,000 cps), Hunt has encountered individuals who have frequencies as high as 200,000 cps in their energy fields."
Of course no-one doubts that animals are surrounded by changing electric fields and emit weak electromagnetic waves due to their nervous and muscle activity. What you have to demonstrate is that they have any nontrivial connection to or function in your meditation stuff and your claims about the soul etc. The failure to make this distinction clearly is damning, but unsurprising - this kind of quack "research" only survives by muddying the waters. Holding a measurement device to a person, reading off a field and then yelling "That proves it, my magic is real" is charlatanery riding on the coattails of legitimate science. It's people who want to believe, and who already know what they want to believe, doing a mock scientific procedure until they find something that, with enough wishful thinking, can be interpreted to support their predetermined conclusion, at which point they drop the equipment and take it as a given that their religion has been proven. That's not what a real scientist does. Real scientists try to refute themselves by all means they can think of, do blind tests and take elaborate statistical precautions, work hard to formulate precise questions and test criteria, and to exclude all alternative explanations based on known physics and biology. When they still find something surprising and unexplained, they tentatively publish it to encourage others to replicate.
This is very damaging to the reputation of the People's Republic as well - there is a reason why studies form China are almost automatically assumed to be crap by many researchers unless it is a really internationally well-known person conducting the research.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
May 23, 2016 at 6:58 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 7:02 am by EnergyGem.)
(May 23, 2016 at 6:39 am)Alex K Wrote: That's a completely irrelevant point. He was mostly smart enough the separate his science from his theology. His laws of mechanics have nothing to do with Jesus.
The clowns you cite, on the other hand, are trying to justify their theology using experiments.
Actually Isaac Newton said:
“We account the scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatsoever.”
He also said:
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."
(May 23, 2016 at 6:39 am)Alex K Wrote: Of course no-one doubts that animals are surrounded by changing electric fields and emit weak electromagnetic waves due to their nervous and muscle activity. What you have to demonstrate is that they have any nontrivial connection to or function in your meditation stuff and your claims about the soul etc. The failure to make this distinction clearly is damning, but unsurprising - this kind of quack "research" only survives by muddying the waters. Holding a measurement device to a person, reading off a field and then yelling "That proves it, my magic is real" is charlatanery riding on the coattails of legitimate science. It's people who want to believe, and who already know what they want to believe, doing a mock scientific procedure until they find something that, with enough wishful thinking, can be interpreted to support their predetermined conclusion, at which point they drop the equipment and take it as a given that their religion has been proven. That's not what a real scientist does. Real scientists try to refute themselves by all means they can think of, do blind tests and take elaborate statistical precautions, work hard to formulate precise questions and test criteria, and to exclude all alternative explanations based on known physics and biology. When they still find something surprising and unexplained, they tentatively publish it to encourage others to replicate.
This is very damaging to the reputation of the People's Republic as well - there is a reason why studies form China are almost automatically assumed to be crap by many researchers unless it is a really internationally well-known person conducting the research.
Alex, here is a large scale Falun Dafa survey done on tens of thousands of people who practice this Qi Gong system. They have found that this practice healed people dramatically from all sorts of ailments across the board:
May 23, 2016 at 7:05 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 7:14 am by Alex K.)
(May 23, 2016 at 6:58 am)EnergyGem Wrote:
(May 23, 2016 at 6:39 am)Alex K Wrote: That's a completely irrelevant point. He was mostly smart enough the separate his science from his theology. His laws of mechanics have nothing to do with Jesus.
The clowns you cite, on the other hand, are trying to justify their theology using experiments.
Actually Isacc Newton said:
“We account the scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatsoever.”
He also said:
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."
Those are just random quotes of someone professing their religious belief. Do you think that any of them contradict what I said above?
Quote:
(May 23, 2016 at 6:39 am)Alex K Wrote: Of course no-one doubts that animals are surrounded by changing electric fields and emit weak electromagnetic waves due to their nervous and muscle activity. What you have to demonstrate is that they have any nontrivial connection to or function in your meditation stuff and your claims about the soul etc. The failure to make this distinction clearly is damning, but unsurprising - this kind of quack "research" only survives by muddying the waters. Holding a measurement device to a person, reading off a field and then yelling "That proves it, my magic is real" is charlatanery riding on the coattails of legitimate science. It's people who want to believe, and who already know what they want to believe, doing a mock scientific procedure until they find something that, with enough wishful thinking, can be interpreted to support their predetermined conclusion, at which point they drop the equipment and take it as a given that their religion has been proven. That's not what a real scientist does. Real scientists try to refute themselves by all means they can think of, do blind tests and take elaborate statistical precautions, work hard to formulate precise questions and test criteria, and to exclude all alternative explanations based on known physics and biology. When they still find something surprising and unexplained, they tentatively publish it to encourage others to replicate.
This is very damaging to the reputation of the People's Republic as well - there is a reason why studies form China are almost automatically assumed to be crap by many researchers unless it is a really internationally well-known person conducting the research.
Alex, here is a large scale Falun Dafa survey done on tens of thousands of people who practice this Qi Gong system. They have found that this practice healed people dramatically from all sorts of ailments across the board:
A list of anecdotes, reported and selected by believers and written down, are not reliable science. Again, this is not how "clinical" or epidemiological studies must be conducted in order to be reliable. There is a whole list of statistical biases and confounding factors that have to be tightly controlled, there need to be control groups, etc. This kind of loose report is scientifically meaningless.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Quote:Those are just random quotes of someone professing their religious belief. Do you think that any of them contradict what I said above?
Well I think the quotes show that his scientific pursuits were strongly influenced by his spiritual beliefs. I think however that having a strong spiritual belief does not mean one cannot do true scientific work. The first scientific experiment I had linked to (http://www.pureinsight.org/node/189) was done by a Falun Dafa practitioner but it was done under strict scientific conditions, is that not still science?
In regards to meditation energy there is a short excerpt from Zhuan Falun on this matter:
"Under the effect of a special electromagnetic field qigong masters can have strong luminescence, and it’s really beautiful. The higher a person’s potency, the larger the energy field he projects. Ordinary people have one too, but it’s a really weak kind of luminescence. People who do research in high-energy physics think of energy as being things like neutrons and atoms. A lot of qigong masters have been tested. And all the qigong masters who are pretty well-known have been tested, in fact. I’ve been tested, too, and they found that I emit gamma rays and thermal neutrons 80–170 times greater than the radiation of normal matter. At that point the needle of the testing instrument had hit the limit, and since the needle had hit the maximum point they couldn’t tell exactly how strong it was. Imagine, neutrons that strong—it’s just incredible! How could a person emit neutrons that strong? This proves that we qigong masters do have gong, it proves we do have energy. It’s been verified by the scientific and technological community."
Quote:A list of anecdotes, reported and selected by believers and written down, are not reliable science. Again, this is not how "clinical" or epidemiological studies must be conducted in order to be reliable. There is a whole list of statistical biases and confounding factors that have to be tightly controlled, there need to be control groups, etc. This kind of result is meaningless.
If thousands of people truly feel tangible benefits from this practice both physcially and mentally surely there must be something to it.
Here is another scientific test performed on Dafa practitioners:
I love the link above!
Nothing like one religion exposing another one as being false...
The writers of the above article obviously don't engage in self reflection! Hilarious.
May 23, 2016 at 7:56 am (This post was last modified: May 23, 2016 at 7:56 am by Alex K.)
http://www.pureinsight.org/node/2573 Wrote:We also applied micro-array technology to examine changes in levels of gene expression in PMNs. Drastic system-level changes in gene expression were detected in PMNs of Falun Gong practitioners, while little changes were detected among non-practitioners, despite the differences in age and gender.
Oh please.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
I love the link above!
Nothing like one religion exposing another one as being false...
The writers of the above article obviously don't engage in self reflection! Hilarious.
In regards to Jesus and religions in general. This is what Master Li Hongzhi has to say about that issue:
“Now about religion, I think it’s a human concept and is named as such by humans. The concept of religion is rather ambiguous, as it doesn’t have a fixed definition. When Sakyamuni was teaching his Fa, he didn’t say his was a religion. Nor did Jesus say his was Christianity, or St. Mary that hers was Catholicism.
Actually, they had their own ways of referring to themselves, and they had their own names for referring to their disciples, but those absolutely weren’t the concepts used by humans. Gods don’t acknowledge religions.
That’s why nowadays many religious people can’t succeed in cultivation in their religions. In fact, they might not truly want to cultivate, and merely feel that [the religion] is good. What they safeguard are their religions, not Buddhas. Buddhas only look at one’s heart, just as Gods only look at one’s heart.
If you can’t truly cultivate yourself in a religion, then it amounts to nothing. The most we can say is that you’ve converted to a religion or that you’ve become a monk or nun, but it doesn’t mean you are Buddha’s disciple.
Buddha only looks at one’s heart.
Becoming a monk or a nun is only a form through which you express your reverence towards Buddha. Only by fundamentally transforming yourself can you become a true follower of Buddha.
If your heart doesn’t become that of a monk or nun, or if your heart isn’t converted to the religion, then it’s useless. Of course, you might say, “But my heart is really devout…” What you’re devoted to is the religion and your intention-filled formalities, not cultivation. That won’t achieve anything.”
(May 23, 2016 at 7:56 am)Alex K Wrote:
http://www.pureinsight.org/node/2573 Wrote:We also applied micro-array technology to examine changes in levels of gene expression in PMNs. Drastic system-level changes in gene expression were detected in PMNs of Falun Gong practitioners, while little changes were detected among non-practitioners, despite the differences in age and gender.
(pester tibs via pm if you need invite) 
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