If you want an idea of how religion impacts one with mental illness first hand I'd like to remind you all of the "Orchids" thread. Having visions/delusions and the priest said she was akin to a saint.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-36143.h...ght=orchid

(June 3, 2016 at 3:42 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If she is clinically mentally ill then we cannot blame her. I do however blame the assholes who think a bible, and not professional mental help was the cure. I DO blame them for handing her a bible and leaving her off a leash.

I think this is my position on my superficial understanding of this particular tragedy 

But it is a fact that people needing professional mental health (as well as health) help can sometimes sadly turn to religion .... the religious prey on those in despair, pain, inner conflict to preach their nonsense.

No one can say whether religion was the main factor in this particular tragedy, but if this tragedy would have happened in spite of religion many other tragedies wouldn't have 

Theism is a mental illness. Those already with a predisposition toward being mentally ill should never fall for indoctrination.

(June 3, 2016 at 9:33 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Theism is a mental illness.  Those already with a predisposition toward being mentally ill should never fall for indoctrination.

I agree with you totally, unfortunately mental illness (religion) is indoctrinated from birth in many instances ... The sad thing is when things go wrong in someones life they reach back to stuff that they were indoctrinated with when they were younger.

I agree with the likes of Richard Dawkins that state teaching religion to kids is child abuse 

Dog.

(June 3, 2016 at 6:54 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(June 3, 2016 at 3:20 am)Little lunch Wrote: To blame this tragedy on religion is to turn a blind eye to mental health disorders.
I don't know the state of affairs in America, but I would be more inclined to blame the government for lack of funding.
That and the ignorance the general public have towards mental health.
Possibly many tragedies could be avoided if people picked up symptoms earlier and there was help to be had.

If the god fantasy delusion did not exist (heaven, hell, reward, punishment, not deserving to live, saving through death) would she have chosen an alternate delusion to fixate on? Maybe one with potentially less deadly outcomes? We can only speculate.

There are plenty of mental delusions that have nothing to do with religion. Some mentally ill people believe the government has implanted chips in their brain or that their TVs are talking directly and personally to them. Religious delusions are only a symptom of mental illness, not a cause. Once the underlying illness is treated, the delusions often disappear.

There is still a stigma surrounding mental illness and getting treatment from mental health professionals, unfortunately. This is driven by ignorance and fear.

Mental illness to me is something that may or may not be capable of one's help.

A psychologist or psychiatrist can do what was learned in training, but in the end there is always something new arising.

Even after years of experience, what one ultimately learns is that the mind is a canvas always misunderstood.

(June 3, 2016 at 11:30 pm)Tres Leches Wrote:

(June 3, 2016 at 6:54 am)mh.brewer Wrote: If the god fantasy delusion did not exist (heaven, hell, reward, punishment, not deserving to live, saving through death) would she have chosen an alternate delusion to fixate on? Maybe one with potentially less deadly outcomes? We can only speculate.

There are plenty of mental delusions that have nothing to do with religion. Some mentally ill people believe the government has implanted chips in their brain or that their TVs are talking directly and personally to them. Religious delusions are only a symptom of mental illness, not a cause. Once the underlying illness is treated, the delusions often disappear.

There is still a stigma surrounding mental illness and getting treatment from mental health professionals, unfortunately. This is driven by ignorance and fear.

I agree, however, what to do think the chances are that she would come up with a god delusion on her own?

(June 3, 2016 at 9:30 pm)madog Wrote:

(June 3, 2016 at 3:42 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If she is clinically mentally ill then we cannot blame her. I do however blame the assholes who think a bible, and not professional mental help was the cure. I DO blame them for handing her a bible and leaving her off a leash.

I think this is my position on my superficial understanding of this particular tragedy 

But it is a fact that people needing professional mental health (as well as health) help can sometimes sadly turn to religion .... the religious prey on those in despair, pain, inner conflict to preach their nonsense.

No one can say whether religion was the main factor in this particular tragedy, but if this tragedy would have happened in spite of religion many other tragedies wouldn't have 

Your standard delusion or actual mental illness beyond religion actual is what allows in both cases humans to hide behind very  bad logic  regardless.

In relationship to this, I do get tired of of people trying to make excuses for our flooded market of guns using dodges like "terrorist" like the California shooters, whose motivation was religion, and say the Va Tech shooter who was mentally ill. It does not fucking matter to me what the motivation was, they still got their hands on guns regardless. 

Now lets not derail this thread and make it about guns. I only brought the delusion/mental illness up because, while they are distinctions to be made, it still remains that bad outcomes can result in both cases when left unchecked.

You cannot make the entire world 100% bad claim free, or mental illness free. But far too much of the time humans worldwide in all nations, will allow these things to fester to the point of very bad outcomes either way.

This is why in both cases better investment in education and health care in western societies fosters more civility.

(June 3, 2016 at 11:30 pm)Tres Leches Wrote: There are plenty of mental delusions that have nothing to do with religion. 

I completely agree, but there are plenty that are ..... and I would imagine even a larger amount that are, but not easily attributable to religion.

Now I don't think it is just the religion that is such a big contributor to mental illness but all the baggage that goes along with it, such as the indoctrination from an early age.

Religion can be behind mental illness even though it doesn't manifest as religion, and could manifest around shame, sex, censorship, mixing with certain people, the list is endless.

Dog.

IMHO

Religion can offer itself as a scapegoat. This woman may have seen god as a way out of perceived insurmountable problems. Without religion she probably would have taken another path. She obviously had issues prior to "seeing the light" and feeding her "god saves" and "heaven" was probably not the right choice.