(June 10, 2016 at 2:30 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(June 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm a Christian during this post, and I believe it. You can't generalise us. We can believe whatever we want.

[/christian]

I'm not surprised at Losty's comment, but do you really think Christianity teaches that we are punished for Adam's sin? If so, you really need to learn more about what you are criticizing.

Shit, yeah... what does this fucker "Luther" know anyway compared to you, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_s...eformation

Quote:Martin Luther (1483–1546) asserted that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. The second article in Lutheranism's Augsburg Confession presents its doctrine of original sin in summary form:

It is also taught among us that since the fall of Adam all men who are born according to the course of nature are conceived and born in sin. That is, all men are full of evil lust and inclinations from their mothers' wombs and are unable by nature to have true fear of God and true faith in God. Moreover, this inborn sickness and hereditary sin is truly sin and condemns to the eternal wrath of God all those who are not born again through Baptism and the Holy Spirit. Rejected in this connection are the Pelagians and others who deny that original sin is sin, for they hold that natural man is made righteous by his own powers, thus disparaging the sufferings and merit of Christ

Sin is just earlier man's attempt and success at controlling the masses. Inform them that they will receive punishment after death, and they shall obey.

It is nothing more than an extenuation of man's ego, his need to control others and always be on top.

"Earlier?"  G-C can hardly write two sentences without spluttering on about fucking sin.  The ones who are really far gone are easy to spot!

I'm not surprised at Losty's comment, but do you really think Christianity teaches that we are punished for Adam's sin? If so, you really need to learn more about what you are criticizing.

(June 10, 2016 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Are you serious?

Yeah, that's exactly what it teaches. Original sin.

Then you have confused two things.

Original sin is a doctrine that discusses where the sin nature comes from. Why we want to sin? Why a little child intentionally does something he knows is bad? There are many different views on what the Adam story means and what Romans 5 means. But none of those views are that we are punished for someone else's sin. We are punished for our own sin we commit (free will and all). God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."  As an illustration, if Christians believed the way you stated, unborn babies, infants and toddlers would go to hell if they died before even learning their first word.

(June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not surprised at Losty's comment, but do you really think Christianity teaches that we are punished for Adam's sin? If so, you really need to learn more about what you are criticizing.

(June 10, 2016 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Are you serious?

Yeah, that's exactly what it teaches. Original sin.

Then you have confused two things.

Original sin is a doctrine that discusses where the sin nature comes from. Why we want to sin? Why a little child intentionally does something he knows is bad? There are many different views on what the Adam story means and what Romans 5 means. But none of those views are that we are punished for someone else's sin. We are punished for our own sin we commit (free will and all). God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."  As an illustration, if Christians believed the way you stated, unborn babies, infants and toddlers would go to hell if they died before even learning their first word.

Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

(June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote:   God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."   

Can I quote you to God in case he forgets or changes his mind?

(June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: Original sin is a doctrine that discusses where the sin nature comes from. Why we want to sin? Why a little child intentionally does something he knows is bad? There are many different views on what the Adam story means and what Romans 5 means. But none of those views are that we are punished for someone else's sin. We are punished for our own sin we commit (free will and all). God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."  As an illustration, if Christians believed the way you stated, unborn babies, infants and toddlers would go to hell if they died before even learning their first word.

Or if you want something a bit more specific.

Quote:From the SAB

Romans 5:9-19 Justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath. ... We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son. ... By the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation ... By one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

(June 11, 2016 at 5:03 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not surprised at Losty's comment, but do you really think Christianity teaches that we are punished for Adam's sin? If so, you really need to learn more about what you are criticizing.


Then you have confused two things.

Original sin is a doctrine that discusses where the sin nature comes from. Why we want to sin? Why a little child intentionally does something he knows is bad? There are many different views on what the Adam story means and what Romans 5 means. But none of those views are that we are punished for someone else's sin. We are punished for our own sin we commit (free will and all). God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."  As an illustration, if Christians believed the way you stated, unborn babies, infants and toddlers would go to hell if they died before even learning their first word.

Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Why did you cut off the sentence? It didn't help your point? There seem to be negative consequences for idol worship that extend to subsequent generations just as there are positive generational consequences for living righteously. Not a surprise since far less sins have the same effect.

(June 11, 2016 at 5:33 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(June 11, 2016 at 5:03 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Why did you cut off the sentence? It didn't help your point? There seem to be negative consequences for idol worship that extend to subsequent generations just as there are positive generational consequences for living righteously. Not a surprise since far less sins have the same effect.

The following verse is "And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Doesn't help my point, also doesn't hinder it.

(June 11, 2016 at 4:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: I'm not surprised at Losty's comment, but do you really think Christianity teaches that we are punished for Adam's sin? If so, you really need to learn more about what you are criticizing.

(June 10, 2016 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Are you serious?

Yeah, that's exactly what it teaches. Original sin.

Then you have confused two things.

Original sin is a doctrine that discusses where the sin nature comes from. Why we want to sin? Why a little child intentionally does something he knows is bad? There are many different views on what the Adam story means and what Romans 5 means. But none of those views are that we are punished for someone else's sin. We are punished for our own sin we commit (free will and all). God is not going to say on judgement day, "Adam sinned so you are going to pay for it."  As an illustration, if Christians believed the way you stated, unborn babies, infants and toddlers would go to hell if they died before even learning their first word.

Neither Luther nor Calvin agree with you, according to the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_s...eformation

For those that don't feel like clicking on the link, they both claim/affirm that we inherit Adam's sin at birth, and it's only through Christ that we have a chance for redemption.

So, yeah....